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<p>Hi Susan,</p>
<p>I would agree with that assessment, but that is not what is being
asked with the new set of recommendations. These suggested recs
move away from contactibility and are demanding full accuracy,
which is something I cannot support. <br>
</p>
<p>Please see my random Whois ARS example pick in my last response
to Lili, where the registrant used accurate data all the way, but
as one field was outdated, it caused an inaccuracy complaint. Were
these the cases you are looking to prevent?</p>
<p>Volker<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 05.06.2018 um 17:23 schrieb Susan
Kawaguchi:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAJjzonHS11VM5fkFDqhzVZzpYHjajd163OeJ1jrnXf0yRLkgdg@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Volker,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I was a member of the RT1 and accuracy was a concern for
the RT. Contactability is important but simply including a
working email address in a WhOIS record with everything else
false is not what the RT deemed acceptable. That was the
current status but allowing identity theft in RDS data or
blatantly false data is a downfall of the current system. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Susan</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jun 5, 2018 at 8:15 AM, SUN
Lili <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:L.SUN@interpol.int"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L.SUN@interpol.int</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="white" link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-SG">
<div class="m_3408941786610500834WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Could
you provide the official confirmation about RT1’s
intension? I have doubts on this. If that’s the
case, it’s inconsistent with the NORC study, and why
WHOIS ARS needs Phrase 3?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Please
also be reminded that WHOIS ARS only implemented
“contactability” check so far, while considerable
failures occurred.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Volker Greimann [mailto:<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.<wbr>net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 5 June, 2018 9:51 PM</span></p>
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> SUN Lili <<a
href="mailto:L.SUN@interpol.int"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L.SUN@interpol.int</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:rds-whois2-rt@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rds-whois2-rt@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RDS-WHOIS2-RT] Data
Accuracy subgroup draft report</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>I have talked again to some of the members of the
RT1 regarding their intentions behind the
interpretation and they were very clear that they
were only concerned with achieving a significant
level of contactability. In fact, one commented: "
the original WHOIS Review team was not interested
in full accuracy, but "contactability." That
concept for fully -- almost completely -- achieved
in the 2013 RAA when the registrars verify (or is
it validate, I always mix up the terms) phone or
email. This should be listed as a huge, key
success of the original WHOIS Review Team
recommendation -- a big check mark for a job well
done (yes this enormous effort, work and
completion of mission is nowhere to be found!)."</p>
<p>I would therefore strongly urge that we follow
the original intent of the recommendation and mark
it as fully achieved.
</p>
<p>When analyzing whether the aims of the
recommendations of the first review have been met,
being neutral means not to misinterpret their
objectives to fit ones' own needs. The first RT
made a recommendation which has been acted upon
and which has in their own view been achieved. Our
work here is done!</p>
<p>Volker</p>
<p> </p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 30.05.2018 um 12:14
schrieb SUN Lili:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Hi
Volker,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
believe the divergence between us roots in the
understanding or interpretation of accuracy. I
checked once again about the definition of
“accuracy” in the 2010 NORC study (used Whois
requirements of 2009 RAA as benchmarks),
quoted below for information.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="m_3408941786610500834Default"><span
style="font-size:11.5pt">Under Registrar
Accreditation Agreement Section 3.3.1.6, an
accurate name and postal address of the
registered name holder means there is
reasonable evidence that the registrant data
consists of the correct name and a valid
postal mailing address for the current
registered name holder. Adapting this for the
study, there were three criteria to be met for
any WHOIS record to be considered accurate:
</span></p>
<p class="m_3408941786610500834Default"
style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<span>1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"">
</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span
style="font-size:11.5pt">Was the address of
the registrant a valid mailing address?
</span></p>
<p class="m_3408941786610500834Default"
style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<span>2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"">
</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span
style="font-size:11.5pt">Was the registrant
named associated in some way with the given
address?
</span></p>
<p class="m_3408941786610500834Default"
style="margin-left:18.0pt">
<span>3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New
Roman"">
</span></span><span dir="LTR"></span><span
style="font-size:11.5pt">When contacted, would
the named registrant acknowledge that they
were indeed the registrant of the domain name,
and confirm all details given as correct and
current?
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">As
such, the core of accurate Whois data is
contactable while with association with the
registrant. The NORC study defined
“Substantial failure” as “Undeliverable
address and/or unlinkable name, however
registrant located. Unable to interview
registrant to obtain confirmation; Deliverable
address, but unable to link or even locate the
registrant, removing any chance of interview”.
Again, if the information in the record has no
association with registrant, it will be deemed
as “Substantial failure”.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The
Whois ARS project has checked syntax and
operability accuracy described in the SAC058
Report so far. The operability accuracy checks
the functionality of the information in a
record (e.g. Does the email go through? Does
the phone ring? Will the mail be delivered?).
In this context, whether the information in a
record has association with registered name
holder has not been checked (postponed to
Phrase 3 – Syntax + Operability + Identity
accuracy). Thus, Phrase 1 plus Phrase 2 are
contactable test only, Phrase 3 has not
started yet, there is no reason to take Whois
ARS project “over- or underperforms the
recommendations”. Again, I insisted that even
a Whois record could perfectly pass syntax and
operability check, while has no association
with the registered name holder, which will
deem as inaccurate.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
do agree some registrars would be fully
compliance with RAA, but as exposed during
Whois ARS project, some registrars don’t, the
evidence is that the inaccuracy could be
remedied after Compliance informing, or the
relating domain names were suspended or
cancelled. If the issue could be remedied at
this stage, why the validation and
verification couldn’t be down upon
registration? You may argue that “Who should
pay for that?”, but this is a responsibility
registrar should take according to RAA.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I
also want to remind you that unfortunately,
except registrars who may have internal
accounting /ticket system to keep tracking
registrant not only on Whois data, but also
billing information, the public Whois data is
the only information that legitimate users or
generic public could access about registered
name holders. If the Whois data is outdated or
even falsified, it could be a mislead for the
information users.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Last
but not least, I understand your standpoint as
a representative of registrar, but as a review
team member, please keep neutral. What have
been reviewed in this subgroup falls in the
Action Plan provided by ICANN and contractual
obligations of RAA. We are not in the position
to challenge decisions have been made.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Lili</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
lang="EN-US"> Volker Greimann [<a
href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.<wbr>net</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 28 May, 2018 6:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> SUN Lili <a
href="mailto:L.SUN@interpol.int"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><L.SUN@interpol.int></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a
href="mailto:rds-whois2-rt@icann.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">rds-whois2-rt@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [RDS-WHOIS2-RT] Data
Accuracy subgroup draft report</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>Hi Lili, </p>
<p>responses inline.</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<p>Regarding Section 3.2, I am a bit puzzled
why no reference at all is made to a
significant qualifier included in Rec 6. Rec
6 only refers to reducing the occurrence of
the accuracy groups of Substantial Failure
and Full Failure (of contactibility of the
contact). In other words, if there is a
partial inaccuracy, this would not even be
covered by the recommendation if sufficient
contactibility is maintained by the
remaining contact points. WHOIS ARS does not
make such a differentiation either, and
instead goes beyond the recommendation as it
merely looks for any error in the data
regardless of whether the remaining data
provides for sufficient contactibility. The
data from the ARS would have to be analyzed
in more significant detail before making the
determination of whether the recommendation
was implemented. I also am not convinced
that the observations under 3.2 are fit to
match the recommendation, and some are
baseless speculation:</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify">
<span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red"
lang="EN-US">The NORC study defined
“Substantial failure” as “Undeliverable
address and/or unlinkable name, however
registrant located. Unable to interview
registrant to obtain confirmation;
Deliverable address, but unable to link or
even locate the registrant, removing any
chance of interview”; defined the “Full
failure” as “Failed on all criteria -
undeliverable address and unlinkable,
missing, or patently false name, unable to
locate to interview”.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify">
<span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red"
lang="EN-US">In this context, my view is
that both Syntax check and Operability
check are not necessarily linkable to the
registrant. A Whois record could perfectly
pass Syntax and Operability check while
has not a single linkable information of
the registrant. I don’t think “sufficient
contactibility” is the objective of Rec
#6, the essence of Rec #6 is how much
relevant the Whois data to the registrant.
The WHOIS ARS leave the identity check to
the last stage, which means the relevance
has not been checked yet.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify">
<span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red"
lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify">
1) This may very well be the case, but
eneral improvement of the whois data is not
what the recommendation is about. The
recommendation is about achieving a certain
level of accuracy, not total accuracy as the
ARS is designed for.
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:justify">
<span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">This
observation is an overall assessment of
the impact of WHOIS ARS.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">We should also comment on how
the ARS implementet the recommendations and
where it over- or underperforms the
recommendations. Both are important when looking
at how ICANN implemented the recommendations.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>2) We should not speculate on causes for
reasons of why the numbers are what they
are. Accordingly, the entire second
paragraph should be removed.
</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">Disagree.
The fact was already there, the review
means assessing the implementation,
identifying problems/issues, and putting
out new recommendations, if the RT doesn’t
dig into the reasons, how can the RT
recommend?</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have no objections against
fact-based reviews of reasons, however we should
not enter into the realm of speculation. I
therefore object to the inclusion of any
conclusions that are not based on research and
facts but only on pure speculation. Otherwise we
could also blame anything on the phases of the
moon or the ascendancy of Jupiter in Virgo.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>3) Again, the inaccurate rate is of no
importance in the contect of the
recommendation. The only rate of concern
would be that of inaccuracies that would be
considered as Substantial and Full Failure
of contactibility of the contact. Therefore
this observation has no relevance to the
recommendation as it stands.</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">See
above. The objective of Rec #6 is to
reduce the inaccuracy in a measurable way,
and Syntax + Operability accuracy doesn’t
mean the criteria of not falling in
Substantial failure have been met. As
such, I used the term “confirmed”.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">I disagree with the
interpretation of that objective. The
recommendation specifically determines the
inaccuracy levels it is concerned with.
Inaccuracies in general or 100% accuracy were
not the objective of that recommendation. The
language here is clear. <br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>4) Instead of seldom, I would use the term
"very rarely, and only in the first cycle"
to correctly reflect the numbers. Four cases
of breach notices out of 2,688 tickets is
statistically irrelevant.</p>
<p><span style="color:red">The statistics were
quoted from </span><a
href="https://whois.icann.org/en/whoisars-contractual-compliance-metrics"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:red">WHOIS ARS Contractual
Compliance Metrics</span></a><span
style="color:red"> as a fact.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Correct. I only object to the
word "seldom". We should be specific when
interpreting the statistic. In this case, the
breach notices only occurred in the first cycle.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>With regard to section 3.5, I fully
disregard with the phrasing of the statement
in section 4 that refers to "... if the WDRP
were fully enforced...". We have no reason
to believe that at this time this policy is
not fully enforced and followed by
registrars merely because of a report ICANN
issued in 2004, especially as the followig
section points out that we do not have
reliable data from the compliance audit
program. We must look at the situation today
and if we have no data on that, we cannot
make such a statement. I therefore suggest
to strike the entire last paragraph of
section 4. If anything, we should ask for
compliance to provide better and more
detailed data.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">The
enforcement of WDRP was reflected in the
following paragraph, and only sampled
registrars were audited and no detailed
information on how the registrars remedy </span><span
style="color:red">deficiency on WDRP
compliance is provided in the audit
report. Regarding the statement of “</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red"
lang="EN-US">Thus, there is good reason
for this subgroup to believe that if the
WDRP were fully enforced at annual basis,
there would be a quite positive impact on
Whois accuracy.”, that’s the assessment of
the impact of WDRP policy you mentioned
below, I’ll leave it for open discussion
of the whole RT.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Again, we have no indication
that the WDRP requirement is not fully enforced.
Your statement indicates it is not, which is a
false statement.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>Further, the recommendation focusses on the
impact of these messages, not on the
observance of the policy by contracted
parties, so the fifth paragraph focussing on
registrar compliance misses that point
entirely and should be removed. I agree with
the assessment that rec 9 has not been
implemented though.</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">I
don’t understand this comment well. The
statement above is the impact of WDRP
policy. As a proactive measure to improve
Whois accuracy, the assessment of WDRP
enforcement is necessary in my opinion.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">I disagree. Even if the
policy were not properly enforced and only a
small number of registrars followed it (which we
have no indication for), we could still analyse
how the policy impacts those registrants that
receiver it, which is what the recommendation
was about. <br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>4.0-4.5 This section should again loses
focus of the actual content of the
recommendations to improving contactibility,
not overall accuracy. We should therefore
rephrase this section accordingly. Instead
of "accuracy" and "reliability" we should
use instead the terminology of sufficient
contactibility, substantial and full
failure.</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">See
Above. Again, I don’t agree “</span><span
style="color:red">the actual content of
the recommendations to improving
contactibility, not overall accuracy</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">”.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">The recommendation is clearly
phrased. If it wanted to recommend full
accuracy, it would have not used the substantial
failure and full failure. If you interpret it
otherwise, that is not covered by the language
they intentfully used, but rather implies your
own agenda.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>4.2. What is the basis for this belief? As
the ARS program took great lengths to create
a significant sample size, its results
regarding accuracy as a percentage should
have some statistical relevance regarding
the overall inaccuracy. Also, inaccuracies
should be graded by the standards laid down
in the recommendations. Insignificant
inaccuracies that do not affect
contactibility were still reported by the
ARS program and included in the statistics,
but play no role in the evaluation of the
implementation of the recommendations. For
example, many ARS compliance reports we
received were for formatting errors where
the data in the WHOIS, while accurate, did
not match the format prescribed by the RAA,
was entered in the wrong field, etc. Such
inaccuracies do not normally affect
contactibility.</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">The
rationale was depicted in the 2 paragraphs
already.
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">I disagree with the
rationale.<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>4.3 I disagree with the section headline.
The contractual compliance report to the
contrary demonstrates proper enforcement of
these obligations as they demonstrate the
enforcement actions taken upon discovery of
a deficiency. I also would argue for the
removal of the section regarding Avalanche,
since it is anecdotal at best and has no
implication on compliance as the obligations
are phrased in a way to allow multiple
venues and methods of verification.
</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">To
validate the format of Whois data and then
verify Whois data are contractual
obligations of registrar, it should be
done upon registration, not to be dealt
with after being discovered by complaints
from community and/or WHOIS ARS. And
according to contractual compliance
report, the top issue with regards to
registrar compliance on WHOIS inaccuracy
is “registrars failing to verify or
validate Whois information as required by
2013 RAA”.
</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Your answer misses my point.
This paragraph suggests whois obligations are
not properly enforced based on the fact that
there are inaccuraties. This is a fallacy, as
the contractual obligations do not prevent all
inaccuracies. An address can be perfectly
formated and therefore validatable and the email
address verifyable and the whois record may
still be inaccurate for any number of reasons.
The registrar can be fully compliant with his
obligations under the 2013, but those do not
guarantee accurate whois data and therefore
cause whois inaccuracy complaints. <br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">I
agree that the example of Avalanche
currently has no relevance to compliance,
it’s only a demonstration that registrar
is in the best position and is also
capable to verify Whois data.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">OK<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>4.4. seems to be missing a word in the
headline. <br>
Also, as the the privacy proxy service take
the role of the registrant in the public
whois, on the accuracy of its own contact
data should be of relevance for whois
accuracy. Any issues with inaccuracies of
the underlying data do not factor into the
recommandations as issue for this subgroup.
Instead any discussions of underlying data
accuracies should be restricted to the
privacy proxy subgroup.</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">I
agree that “</span><span style="color:red">underlying
data accuracies should be restricted to
the privacy proxy subgroup</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">”,
as it’s invisible to this subgroup. What
has been outlined here is the facts of
Whois check when it comes to P/P service.</span></p>
<p>4.5. As inaccuracy of whois is not at
issue, this entire section would need
reworking. I also do not agree with its
conclusion that the measures are not
sufficient to fulfill the targets of the
recommendations.
</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">I
totally disagree that “</span><span
style="color:red">inaccuracy of whois is
not at issue</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">”,
that was the reason why Rec #5-9 were to
reduce the Whois inaccuracy. </span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Only to a specific point, not
inaccuracy in general. Reading more into the
recommendation abuses them for purposes not
intended.
<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p>I also reject the assumption of the
perception of non-compliance by registrars
with their obligations. From my own
experience, most inaccuracy reports received
are not preventable by the measures required
by the RAA. A record may be fully
validatable and verifyable, yet still be
incorrect. For example, an address may be
perfectly formatted in accordance with the
requirements, thus passing every required
validation, yet still be incorrect due to
the street not existing or being the address
of someone else. I therefore strongly
suggest removing the last paragraph of
section 1 of 4.5.</p>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:red">Your
example perfectly indicate that validation
is not enough, a following verification is
needed to make sure the Whois information
belongs to the registrant.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">Needed for what? Who should
pay for that? As even cross-field verification
is commercially unfeasible, verification of
identity is impossible to achieve from a
commercially reasonable perspective.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Volker<br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 25.05.2018 um 12:40
schrieb SUN Lili:</p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Dear
all,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Sorry
for the late submission.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Please
refer to attached the revised version of
the Data Accuracy subgroup draft report,
which incorporated the discussion of 2<sup>nd</sup>
F2F meeting and answers to the follow up
questions on Data accuracy and
Compliance from ICANN.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">As
to the proposed recommendations, I’ll
reflect in Compliance subgroup draft
report.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Lili</span></p>
<div>
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the fulfilment of the purpose for which
the information is to be used. All
practicable steps shall be taken by the
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protected against unauthorised access or
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
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<br>
</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1</pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert</pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>------------------------------<wbr>--------------</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Best regards,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre>- legal department -</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1</pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert</pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:</pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1</pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert</pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a></pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>------------------------------<wbr>--------------</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Best regards,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre>- legal department -</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1</pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert</pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
</p>
<pre>-- </pre>
<pre>Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Mit freundlichen Grüßen,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre>- Rechtsabteilung -</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1</pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert</pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:</pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre>Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre>Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>------------------------------<wbr>--------------</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Best regards,</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Volker A. Greimann</pre>
<pre>- legal department -</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Key-Systems GmbH</pre>
<pre>Im Oberen Werk 1</pre>
<pre>66386 St. Ingbert</pre>
<pre>Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901</pre>
<pre>Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851</pre>
<pre>Email: <a href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a></pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Web: <a href="http://www.key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a href="http://www.RRPproxy.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.RRPproxy.net</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a></pre>
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<pre> </pre>
<pre>CEO: Alexander Siffrin</pre>
<pre>Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken </pre>
<pre>V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP</pre>
<pre><a href="http://www.keydrive.lu" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">www.keydrive.lu</a> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre>This e-mail and its attachments is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. Furthermore it is not permitted to publish any content of this email. You must not use, disclose, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. If an addressing or transmission error has misdirected this e-mail, kindly notify the author by replying to this e-mail or contacting us by telephone.</pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
<pre> </pre>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.
Mit freundlichen Grüßen,
Volker A. Greimann
- Rechtsabteilung -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
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Folgen Sie uns bei Twitter oder werden Sie unser Fan bei Facebook:
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<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
Geschäftsführer: Alexander Siffrin
Handelsregister Nr.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
Umsatzsteuer ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
Der Inhalt dieser Nachricht ist vertraulich und nur für den angegebenen Empfänger bestimmt. Jede Form der Kenntnisgabe, Veröffentlichung oder Weitergabe an Dritte durch den Empfänger ist unzulässig. Sollte diese Nachricht nicht für Sie bestimmt sein, so bitten wir Sie, sich mit uns per E-Mail oder telefonisch in Verbindung zu setzen.
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Should you have any further questions, please do not hesitate to contact us.
Best regards,
Volker A. Greimann
- legal department -
Key-Systems GmbH
Im Oberen Werk 1
66386 St. Ingbert
Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901
Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851
Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>
Web: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.key-systems.net">www.key-systems.net</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.RRPproxy.net">www.RRPproxy.net</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.domaindiscount24.com">www.domaindiscount24.com</a> / <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.BrandShelter.com">www.BrandShelter.com</a>
Follow us on Twitter or join our fan community on Facebook and stay updated:
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.facebook.com/KeySystems">www.facebook.com/KeySystems</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.twitter.com/key_systems">www.twitter.com/key_systems</a>
CEO: Alexander Siffrin
Registration No.: HR B 18835 - Saarbruecken
V.A.T. ID.: DE211006534
Member of the KEYDRIVE GROUP
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.keydrive.lu">www.keydrive.lu</a>
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