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    <p>Hi Susan,</p>

    <p>I still feel this is premature. Even if the rec is 6 years old,

      the PDP recommendations are still very fresh not even implemented

      yet. The GNSO council has approved them as has the board and a

      broad community consensus. <br>

    </p>

    <p>I also have an issue with your assumption that we know who our

      customer is. We don't. We never met most of them. Most of them do

      not even have an account with us and pay their direct provider

      instead. We cannot "ensure" accuracy anymore than we can "ensure"

      a winning lottery ticket. All we can ensure is that the data meets

      a certain format (validation) and either email or phone number

      (usually email) works at the time the domain is registered

      (verification). <br>

    </p>

    <p>To provide the data entrusted by the registrant to us to ICANN

      for anything but the agreed purpose would violate that trust. They

      certainly do not have a legitimate interest in that particular set

      of data that outweighs that particular registrants interest in

      privacy. </p>

    <p>Best,</p>

    <p>Volker<br>

    </p>

    <br>

    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.06.2018 um 19:20 schrieb Susan

      Kawaguchi:<br>

    </div>

    <blockquote type="cite"

cite="mid:CAJjzonEePEQJBQw26JmXHa1rimpOpYzG4bdA6CXy0aPLg=_EnQ@mail.gmail.com">

      <div dir="ltr">Hi Volker 

        <div><br>

        </div>

        <div>I disagree that our only option is to say thank you.  This

          recommendation is 6 years old so it would make sense that as

          an RT we would review the policy created by the PDP and make a

          recommendation in view of what has transpired in the last 6

          years. </div>

        <div><br>

        </div>

        <div>The Temp Spec addresses accuracy of data.  What is being

          recommended is that a registrar treat the underlying

          registrant data the same way it is required to validate

          registrant data now.  A registrar knows who their customer is

          and can ensure that the data under the PP is accurate without

          disclosing that to the world. </div>

        <div><br>

        </div>

        <div>Your claim this would violate the underlying registrant's

          privacy I do not follow that line of thinking at all. </div>

        <div><br>

        </div>

        <div>We should continue to discuss this recommendation. </div>

        <div><br>

        </div>

        <div>Susan </div>

        <div><br>

        </div>

      </div>

      <div class="gmail_extra"><br>

        <div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jun 7, 2018 at 7:37 AM, Volker

          Greimann <span dir="ltr"><<a

              href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank"

              moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>></span>

          wrote:<br>

          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0

            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

            <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">

              <p>I do not support any attempt to introduce an obligation

                for service providers to violate the privacy of their

                customers simply for purposes of "checks".</p>

              <p>The PPSAI WG has made very specific decisions regarding

                the obligations of service providers regarding data

                quality. It is not our place to question these decisions

                which have been approved by the GNSO and the board and

                are now on their final stretch of implementation. <br>

              </p>

              <p>Our report should only say: "thank you ICANN, job well

                done!"</p>

              <p>Anything beyond that is a job for the review of the

                policy after it has been implemented for a while.<br>

              </p>

              <p>Volker<br>

              </p>

              <br>

              <div class="m_-6839439845171155380moz-cite-prefix">Am

                06.06.2018 um 20:21 schrieb Carlton Samuels:<br>

              </div>

              <blockquote type="cite">

                <div dir="ltr">

                  <div class="gmail_default"

                    style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large">Hi

                    Lili:<br>

                    See my comments in line.</div>

                  <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">

                    <div>

                      <div class="m_-6839439845171155380gmail_signature"

                        data-smartmail="gmail_signature">

                        <div dir="ltr">

                          <div>

                            <div dir="ltr">

                              <div><br>

                                ==============================<br>

                                <i><font face="comic sans ms,

                                    sans-serif">Carlton A Samuels</font></i><br>

                                <font face="comic sans ms, sans-serif"><i>Mobile:

                                    876-818-1799<br>

                                    <font color="#33CC00">Strategy,

                                      Process, Governance, Assessment

                                      & Turnaround</font></i></font><br>

                                =============================</div>

                            </div>

                          </div>

                        </div>

                      </div>

                    </div>

                    <br>

                    <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at

                      10:21 PM, SUN Lili <span dir="ltr"><<a

                          href="mailto:L.SUN@interpol.int"

                          target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">L.SUN@interpol.int</a>></span>

                      wrote:<br>

                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0

                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc

                        solid;padding-left:1ex">

                        <div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-SG">

                          <div

                            class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846WordSection1">

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Dear

                                Privacy & Proxy subgroup members,</span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I

                                went through the draft report of this

                                subgroup on wiki page (<a

                                  href="https://community.icann.org/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=71604717"

                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">https://community.icann.org/p<wbr>ages/viewpage.action?pageId=71<wbr>604717</a>)

                                and step in with my concerns:</span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                            <p

                              class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846MsoListParagraph"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><span>1.<span

                                    style="font:7.0pt "Times New

                                    Roman"">       </span></span></span><span

                                dir="LTR"></span><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">To

                                the Data Accuracy subgroup, the Whois

                                accuracy of domain names that utilize

                                Privacy and Proxy Services is invisible.

                                And Volker also mentioned that this will

                                be dealt with in the Privacy & Proxy

                                subgroup. </span></p>

                          </div>

                        </div>

                      </blockquote>

                      <div>

                        <div class="gmail_default"

                          style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;display:inline">Under

                          current rules, the accredited P/P provider is

                          obliged to ensure contactability of customer

                          of his service. That this is the case cannot

                          be verified independently and some of us have

                          argued from inception this is a major hole in

                          the agreement. We have alternately argued that

                          there should be graded penalties for this

                          violation after the fact.</div>

                      </div>

                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0

                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc

                        solid;padding-left:1ex">

                        <div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-SG">

                          <div

                            class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846WordSection1">

                            <p

                              class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846MsoListParagraph"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">As

                                such, I strongly support Susan’s

                                comments on “6 Conducting periodic due

                                diligence checks on customer contact

                                information” and “8 Providing clear and

                                unambiguous guidance on the rights and

                                responsibilities of registered name

                                holders, and how those should be managed

                                in the privacy/proxy environment.” There

                                is no reason for a customer who chose

                                P/P service thus been protected from

                                responsibilities.</span></p>

                          </div>

                        </div>

                      </blockquote>

                      <div>

                        <div class="gmail_default"

                          style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;display:inline">See

                          above. We expect that the risk triage will

                          allow the cost of violation to pass to the

                          customer.</div>

                         </div>

                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0

                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc

                        solid;padding-left:1ex">

                        <div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-SG">

                          <div

                            class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846WordSection1">

                            <p

                              class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846MsoListParagraph"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                            <p

                              class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846MsoListParagraph"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><span>2.<span

                                    style="font:7.0pt "Times New

                                    Roman"">       </span></span></span><span

                                dir="LTR"></span><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">There

                                is no indication about the legacy domain

                                names that utilize P/P Services before

                                the provider been accredited. Will it be

                                a similar situation as Grandfathered

                                domains?</span></p>

                          </div>

                        </div>

                      </blockquote>

                      <div>

                        <div class="gmail_default"

                          style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;display:inline">Some

                          of us have argued that there should be a

                          Privacy/Proxy Data Accuracy Reminder policy

                          along the line of the WHOIS Data reminder. It

                          was not accepted. But there is no reason the

                          P/P provider cannot be obliged and bound to it

                          in terms of the accreditation for renewals. </div>

                         </div>

                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0

                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc

                        solid;padding-left:1ex">

                        <div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-SG">

                          <div

                            class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846WordSection1">

                            <p

                              class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846MsoListParagraph"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                            <p

                              class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846MsoListParagraph"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><span>3.<span

                                    style="font:7.0pt "Times New

                                    Roman"">       </span></span></span><span

                                dir="LTR"></span><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Like

                                the example I gave during the 2<sup>nd</sup>

                                F2F meeting, if there is not enough

                                regulation and overseeing in place, P/P

                                service is very likely to be abused. To

                                be clear, I elaborated the example in a

                                word document (see attached). Do we

                                really need this kind of fake prosperity

                                of domain industry?</span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">A

                                response from this subgroup is much

                                appreciated.</span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                          </div>

                        </div>

                      </blockquote>

                      <div>

                        <div class="gmail_default"

                          style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;display:inline">Best,</div>

                      </div>

                      <div>

                        <div class="gmail_default"

                          style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:large;display:inline">-Carlton</div>

                         </div>

                      <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0

                        0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc

                        solid;padding-left:1ex">

                        <div link="#0563C1" vlink="#954F72" lang="EN-SG">

                          <div

                            class="m_-6839439845171155380m_-5119598688317337846WordSection1">

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"></span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Thanks,</span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Lili</span></p>

                            <p class="MsoNormal"><span

style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1f497d"> </span></p>

                            <div>

                              <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>

                            </div>

                          </div>

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</pre>

              </blockquote>

              <br>

              <pre class="m_-6839439845171155380moz-signature" cols="72">-- 

Bei weiteren Fragen stehen wir Ihnen gerne zur Verfügung.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Volker A. Greimann

- Rechtsabteilung -

Key-Systems GmbH

Im Oberen Werk 1

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Tel.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 901

Fax.: +49 (0) 6894 - 9396 851

Email: <a class="m_-6839439845171155380moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:vgreimann@key-systems.net" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">vgreimann@key-systems.net</a>

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- legal department -

Key-Systems GmbH

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