[registration-issues-wg] Registrars as Censors

Derek Smythe derek at aa419.org
Mon Nov 6 16:51:58 UTC 2017


I'll swing the conversation to the opposite side to put a reality
check into this issue. Let's talk fraud. How do these theoretical
policies pan out in a non-perfect world?

What happens when we come to issues such as registrars demanding a
court order for issues such as the chemical "SSD Solutions" being sold
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_money_scam ). This chemical does
not exist.  People using it to defraud have been arrested in just
about every part of the world. Such attempts are legal nowhere. Clear
case history exists. Yet the domain name is something akin to
"ssdsolution ..." and protected by by the registrars associated proxy.

What happens if a brand owner is serially targeted with his website
stolen again and again,  abused to defraud consumers, the company is
small and paying @2500 each time for a UDRP is not an option, nor
appointing an attorney in the USA. Quite frankly such a company could
bankrupt itself defending itself with "due processes". If they chose
not to bankrupt themselves,  that does not leave the issue of the
victims being targeted. I have had conversations with more than one
such company.

What happens if we have all the policies in place to ensure valid
registration details, but not enforced and a party is serially using
garbage details via a registrar to defraud victims?

These are not free speech issues. This is something else again.

Law enforcement asks for victims, but if victims are not in their
"connected" jurisdictions, they will not even look at it. In most
cases, there is no due process for victims since the crime is
international and losses too small, but devastating and livelihood
depriving for the victim. In yet other jurisdictions, law enforcement
is more concerned about their uniforms than cyber fraud, considering
it a civil issue. Tell that to somebody that has lost their
livelihood. But according to the stated logic, due process must take
place. That means a victim that is virtually bankrupt must now hire
and international lawyer in the jurisdiction of the registrar - for
what purpose? The registrar will not recover the losses.

The scenarios above are common and examples only limited by the time
people like have available. A legitimate party will register one or
two domains. It's not uncommon to find serial fraudsters registering
over 300 domains.

Here's the irony. Some registers do not tolerate fraud and will take
action if given conclusive proof. Yet a certain registrar upholding
the EFF's view has become the go-to registrar with their free proxy
services where certain bad apples have been booted by other registrars.

We need to think about this carefully. In an ideal world I would agree
with the EFF, if law enforcement investigates each issue, if legal
assistance is available to all victims of domain based cyber fraud.
But then much of the world is not ideal. Not even in the USA, much
less in other parts of the world.

Derek Smythe
Artists Against 419
http://www.aa419.org

On 2017-11-05 08:43 PM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
> Michele:
> The writing framed the views of two groups of our stakeholders, not
> at all representing my own.
>
> CAS  
>
>
> ==============================
> /Carlton A Samuels/
> /Mobile: 876-818-1799
> Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
> =============================
>
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight
> <michele at blacknight.com <mailto:michele at blacknight.com>> wrote:
>
>     Carlton
>
>      
>
>     Freedom of speech is **not** “inalienable” and it’s definitely
>     not an absolute right.
>
>      
>
>     Personally I think it’s interesting that different groups want
>     to discuss this, but unless they’re going to pay our legal fees
>     I don’t see how any 3^rd party can force a registrar (or anyone
>     else) to not take action when they’re being fined or worse.
>
>      
>
>     Regards
>
>      
>
>     Michele
>
>      
>
>     --
>
>     Mr Michele Neylon
>
>     Blacknight Solutions
>
>     Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
>     https://www.blacknight.com
>
>     https://blacknight.blog /
>
>     http://ceo.hosting/
>
>     Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203072>
>
>     Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <tel:+353%2059%20918%203090>
>
>     -------------------------------
>
>     Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
>     Park,Sleaty
>
>     Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,R93 X265
>
>     ,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
>     *From: *<registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org
>     <mailto:registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org>>
>     on behalf of Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com
>     <mailto:carlton.samuels at gmail.com>>
>     *Date: *Sunday 5 November 2017 at 17:17
>     *To: *"registration-issues-wg at icann.org
>     <mailto:registration-issues-wg at icann.org>"
>     <registration-issues-wg at icann.org
>     <mailto:registration-issues-wg at icann.org>>, Charla Shambley via
>     CCT-Review <cct-review at icann.org <mailto:cct-review at icann.org>>
>     *Subject: *[registration-issues-wg] Registrars as Censors
>
>      
>
>     Um, well, they can summarily act under [a] general provision[s]
>     of the Terms of Service disapproving of things like incitement,
>     antisocial behaviours and such.
>
>      
>
>     The NCUC's position tends to a blanket restraint on any action
>     by the registrar; the ToS may not be utilised for such actions,
>     especially if it results - or tends to result - in decisions
>     pertaining [web] content.
>
>      
>
>     The EFF's position is a little more nuanced: 
>
>     it is worried about lack of due process and accountability in
>     the first instance and the incursion of certain inalienable
>     rights, like freedom of speech. So they promote a process that
>     they feel would make the action accountable
>
>      
>
>     https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/eff-icanns-registrars-dont-pick-censors-pen<https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/eff-icanns-registrars-dont-pick-censors-pen>
>
>      
>
>      
>
>     -Carlton
>
>
>     ==============================
>     /Carlton A Samuels/
>     /Mobile: 876-818-1799 <tel:%28876%29%20818-1799>
>     Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
>     =============================
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> registration-issues-wg mailing list
> registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org
> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/registration-issues-wg

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