[registration-issues-wg] Registrars as Censors

Carlton Samuels carlton.samuels at gmail.com
Mon Nov 6 22:15:58 UTC 2017


Geez, where is Shaw or Wilde when you need them!

There is no basis for a fight man! Read the sentence again. Focus on what
came before that phrase!


==============================
*Carlton A Samuels*

*Mobile: 876-818-1799Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment &
Turnaround*
=============================

On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 1:53 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <
michele at blacknight.com> wrote:

> “Throw the book at them” on what basis?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com
>
> https://blacknight.blog /
>
> http://ceo.hosting/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072 <+353%2059%20918%203072>
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <+353%2059%20918%203090>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow, R93 X265
>
> ,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *<registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on
> behalf of Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Monday 6 November 2017 at 17:52
> *To: *Derek Smythe <derek at aa419.org>
> *Cc: *"registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org" <
> registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [registration-issues-wg] Registrars as Censors
>
>
>
> See, what we need are sensible responses to telling problems.  And I truly
> believe the frameworks existing allows this. Cooperation is key here.
>
>
>
> And when that does not happen, throw the book at 'em.
>
>
>
> -Carlton
>
>
>
> ==============================
> *Carlton A Samuels*
>
> *Mobile: 876-818-1799 <(876)%20818-1799> Strategy, Planning, Governance,
> Assessment & Turnaround*
> =============================
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 11:51 AM, Derek Smythe <derek at aa419.org> wrote:
>
> I'll swing the conversation to the opposite side to put a reality check
> into this issue. Let's talk fraud. How do these theoretical policies pan
> out in a non-perfect world?
>
> What happens when we come to issues such as registrars demanding a court
> order for issues such as the chemical "SSD Solutions" being sold (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_money_scam ). This chemical does not
> exist.  People using it to defraud have been arrested in just about every
> part of the world. Such attempts are legal nowhere. Clear case history
> exists. Yet the domain name is something akin to "ssdsolution ..." and
> protected by by the registrars associated proxy.
>
> What happens if a brand owner is serially targeted with his website stolen
> again and again,  abused to defraud consumers, the company is small and
> paying @2500 each time for a UDRP is not an option, nor appointing an
> attorney in the USA. Quite frankly such a company could bankrupt itself
> defending itself with "due processes". If they chose not to bankrupt
> themselves,  that does not leave the issue of the victims being targeted. I
> have had conversations with more than one such company.
>
> What happens if we have all the policies in place to ensure valid
> registration details, but not enforced and a party is serially using
> garbage details via a registrar to defraud victims?
>
> These are not free speech issues. This is something else again.
>
> Law enforcement asks for victims, but if victims are not in their
> "connected" jurisdictions, they will not even look at it. In most cases,
> there is no due process for victims since the crime is international and
> losses too small, but devastating and livelihood depriving for the victim.
> In yet other jurisdictions, law enforcement is more concerned about their
> uniforms than cyber fraud, considering it a civil issue. Tell that to
> somebody that has lost their livelihood. But according to the stated logic,
> due process must take place. That means a victim that is virtually bankrupt
> must now hire and international lawyer in the jurisdiction of the registrar
> - for what purpose? The registrar will not recover the losses.
>
> The scenarios above are common and examples only limited by the time
> people like have available. A legitimate party will register one or two
> domains. It's not uncommon to find serial fraudsters registering over 300
> domains.
>
> Here's the irony. Some registers do not tolerate fraud and will take
> action if given conclusive proof. Yet a certain registrar upholding the
> EFF's view has become the go-to registrar with their free proxy services
> where certain bad apples have been booted by other registrars.
>
> We need to think about this carefully. In an ideal world I would agree
> with the EFF, if law enforcement investigates each issue, if legal
> assistance is available to all victims of domain based cyber fraud. But
> then much of the world is not ideal. Not even in the USA, much less in
> other parts of the world.
>
> Derek Smythe
>
> Artists Against 419
>
> http://www.aa419.org
>
>
>
> On 2017-11-05 08:43 PM, Carlton Samuels wrote:
>
> Michele:
>
> The writing framed the views of two groups of our stakeholders, not at all
> representing my own.
>
>
>
> CAS
>
>
>
> ==============================
> *Carlton A Samuels*
> *Mobile: **876-818-1799* <(876)%20818-1799>
> * Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> =============================
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 5, 2017 at 12:32 PM, Michele Neylon - Blacknight <
> michele at blacknight.com> wrote:
>
> Carlton
>
>
>
> Freedom of speech is **not** “inalienable” and it’s definitely not an
> absolute right.
>
>
>
> Personally I think it’s interesting that different groups want to discuss
> this, but unless they’re going to pay our legal fees I don’t see how any 3
> rd party can force a registrar (or anyone else) to not take action when
> they’re being fined or worse.
>
>
>
> Regards
>
>
>
> Michele
>
>
>
> --
>
> Mr Michele Neylon
>
> Blacknight Solutions
>
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
>
> https://www.blacknight.com
>
> https://blacknight.blog /
>
> http://ceo.hosting/
>
> Intl. +353 (0) 59  9183072 <+353%2059%20918%203072>
>
> Direct Dial: +353 (0)59 9183090 <+353%2059%20918%203090>
>
> -------------------------------
>
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business Park,Sleaty
>
> Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow, R93 X265
>
> ,Ireland  Company No.: 370845
>
> *From: *<registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org> on
> behalf of Carlton Samuels <carlton.samuels at gmail.com>
> *Date: *Sunday 5 November 2017 at 17:17
> *To: *"registration-issues-wg at icann.org" <registration-issues-wg at icann.org>,
> Charla Shambley via CCT-Review <cct-review at icann.org>
> *Subject: *[registration-issues-wg] Registrars as Censors
>
>
>
> Um, well, they can summarily act under [a] general provision[s] of the
> Terms of Service disapproving of things like incitement, antisocial
> behaviours and such.
>
>
>
> The NCUC's position tends to a blanket restraint on any action by the
> registrar; the ToS may not be utilised for such actions, especially if it
> results - or tends to result - in decisions pertaining [web] content.
>
>
>
> The EFF's position is a little more nuanced:
>
> it is worried about lack of due process and accountability in the first
> instance and the incursion of certain inalienable rights, like freedom of
> speech. So they promote a process that they feel would make the action
> accountable
>
>
>
> https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2017/10/eff-icanns-registrars-
> dont-pick-censors-pen
>
>
>
>
>
> -Carlton
>
>
> ==============================
> *Carlton A Samuels*
> *Mobile: **876-818-1799* <%28876%29%20818-1799>
> * Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround*
> =============================
>
>
>
>
>
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