[registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Urgent EPDP question

Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi Hadia at tra.gov.eg
Mon Oct 15 08:50:47 UTC 2018


Thank you, the article is very detailed and the diagram even explains it more.

Hadia
-----Original Message-----
From: Matthias M. Hudobnik [mailto:matthias at hudobnik.at] 
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 9:52 AM
To: Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi; derek at aa419.org; registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org
Subject: AW: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Urgent EPDP question

Dear all,

From a legal point of view this differentiation needs and also should be done in my point of view! 
Here also an article which explains it quite well; also some overlapping issue: https://www.i-scoop.eu/personal-data-natural-persons-of-legal-persons-entities/

Best,
Matthias

_______________________
Ing. Matthias M. Hudobnik
matthias at hudobnik.at
http://www.hudobnik.at


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: registration-issues-wg [mailto:registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] Im Auftrag von Hadia Abdelsalam Mokhtar EL miniawi
Gesendet: Montag, 15. Oktober 2018 09:20
An: derek at aa419.org; registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org
Betreff: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Urgent EPDP question

So far it seems that we have an agreement on the differentiation between natural and legal persons for the benefit of the end users.

Kindest Regards
Hadia

-----Original Message-----
From: registration-issues-wg [mailto:registration-issues-wg-bounces at atlarge-lists.icann.org] On Behalf Of Derek Smythe
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 9:16 AM
To: registration-issues-wg at atlarge-lists.icann.org
Subject: Re: [registration-issues-wg] [CPWG] Urgent EPDP question

Yes, agreed 100%.

Contracted parties should treat Legal Persons differently from Natural Persons.

We are essentially asking consumers to sign a blank check/cheque when they try and deal with a new business that's GDPR protected as they can't do any form of due diligence in reality. This makes any consumer a potential target to loss of privacy, fraud and more.

The only argument should really be as to whether this extends to all Natural Persons or just those of the EU.

We need to consider a major concern here is the abuse of domains. How do we protect or mitigate? This is what keeps us all safer. Law enforcement simply cannot do it all as is a matter of record. Nor will litigation for numerous reasons.

We also need to ask what happens is a domain claims to be a natural person, but is used for a company? We most certainly have malicious "Interpol", "United Nations" clone domains out there registered to natural persons. And fictitious companies. Even a registrant name "Bar Clay" used for a fake bank. This needs to be addressed as well as we are guaranteed to see abuse of the definitions here.

> (As you may note if you looked at the RDS-WHOIS2 report, registrars 
> under the 2013 RAA must do some validation of contact information for 
> new an transfered domains, but none to simple renewal. so there are 
> currently 140,000,000 domains without verified information (5 years 
> after the 2013 RAA came into force) and there is no requirement to 
> ever validate their information - so unspecified time frames can last 
> a LONG time.)

I believe we see the most abuse at the start of the domain's life cycle and the chance of abuse declines over time. This has most certainly been my experience in advance fee fraud. So we can be somewhat flexible on older established domains.

A bigger danger is registrars that have not signed the RAA 2013 and still bound under older versions of the RAA. I discovered one recently, much abused.

A potential loophole is in private domain resales. We encounter situations where the new owner simply changes the emails and not the other details, then starts abusing that domain. This is also used as a stepping stone to purchase new domains at the original registrar.


Something to chew on, three years old but still as valid as ever:

http://www.securityskeptic.com/2015/07/how-to-register-a-gtld-domain-name-without-disclosing-personal-data.html

Obviously there is a risk in displaying Legal Persons details. But if they can't protect themselves, how can they be expected to protect those they deal with? A simple explanation page to each registrant email would be simpler than trying to fix later where we're heading to.

Derek Smythe
Artists Against 419
http://www.aa419.org


On 2018/10/15 03:12, Alan Greenberg wrote:
> Here is a question that we need an answer on no later than Tuesday 
> morning.
> 
> GDPR requires the information related to Natural Persons be protected 
> (for those resident in Europe) be protected. GDPR does not apply to 
> Legal Persons (ie companies).
> 
> ICANN's Temporary Spec allows contracted parties to treat all 
> registrant alike and subject to GDPR.
> 
> The EPDP Charter includes questions about whether contracted parties 
> may or must treat Legal Persons differently from Natural Persons.
> 
> The GAC, BC and IPC have made strong statements about the need to 
> restrict GDPS to Natural Persons. The contracted parties are pushing 
> back - strongly. The words vary, but in essence what they are saying 
> ranges from there should be no constraint on them to yes, they may 
> differentiate but with an unspecified time-frame.  (As you may note if 
> you looked at the RDS-WHOIS2 report, registrars under the 2013 RAA 
> must do some validation of contact information for new an transfered 
> domains, but none to simple renewal. so there are currently
> 140,000,000 domains without verified information (5 years after the
> 2013 RAA came into force) and there is no requirement to ever validate 
> their information - so unspecified time frames can last a LONG time.)
> 
> I personally feel that it is essential that we should differentiate 
> between legal persons and natural persons, just as GDPR and other 
> privacy legislation does.
> 
> Comments?
> 
> Alan
> 
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