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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I guess the key to me in clarifying the role of a proxy provider and liability as a registrant is where and what contract would we clarify and what mechanism
do we have to hold them liable? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Seth M Reiss [mailto:seth.reiss@lex-ip.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 4:03 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Susan Kawaguchi; 'Kathy Kleiman'<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rt4-whois@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Rt4-whois] streamlined proxy recommendation language<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I am not advocating ignoring proxy services simply clarifying their role and liability as registrant. I suspect we are very closely aligned regarding outcome,
just not how to reach there.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I think we disagree regarding whether we need to tolerate an industry simply because it exists and has for a time. ICANN did not tolerate domain name tasting,
although it acted relatively quickly there and has not here.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I believe it to be a dangerous proposition to say that we need to accommodate existing practices simply because ICANN has allowed them to exist for a period
of time, although I think it’s an unfortunately circumstance. If you apply this line of reasoning broadly, you effectively allow the industry to restrict what ICANN can and cannot do.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I would like to find a middle ground. I am not one for asking people to think differently. I just don’t see how holding stating a proxy should be held fully
responsible, and then at the same time having retail proxy services definitions and a voluntary best practices policy, will not be viewed as inherently contradictory.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Seth<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> Susan Kawaguchi [mailto:susank@fb.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 1:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kathy Kleiman; Seth M Reiss<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rt4-whois@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [Rt4-whois] streamlined proxy recommendation language<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">HI Seth,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">I am going to respond to you out of order<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">In all our discussions, I have still not heard a persuasive argument why a proxy service industry that can shield itself from liability is necessary or good
or appropriate. </span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">I agree with you but it is what is. The situation arose over 10 years ago and I do not think that advocating to do away with proxy services is going
to be well received by the ICANN community. Also to date, there has been very few examples of a proxy service being held liable. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">We need proxy services but we need responsive proxy services many of the providers are acting responsibly it is the bad actors that I would like to change
their behavior. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Once you introduce definitions concerning affiliates, retail services and different flavors of proxy services, the cheap ones with flimsy relationships, and
the expensive ones with fiduciary type relationships, it will appear to the court that you do not really mean what you saying in bullet number 6. This will confuse the courts (and the public) and the registrant proxy services is more likely to be able to
weasel out of being held liable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">I am not sure that these definitions would be accepted outside of ICANN and at least we would have a clearer picture of who we are dealing with.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">I am not convinced at all that just removing the language from the RAA would impact the practices of the current proxy services. If you have another argument
let me know I am open to rethinking this but I am not open to ignoring proxy service providers.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:windowtext">Susan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org [mailto:rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 3:15 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Seth M Reiss<br>
<b>Cc:</b> rt4-whois@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Rt4-whois] streamlined proxy recommendation language<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Great comments, Seth. I defer to Susan and James, as the experts on this material.<br>
Best,<br>
Kathy<br>
<br>
: <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you Kathy for breaking this out. I have not been good about reviewing the entire document.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">To respond to Peter’s question about what would be legally enforceable, I think if you look at bullet number 6, if this bullet was implemented in a very clear
and unambiguous way, by itself and without some of the other material being proposal, then I think there would be reasonable expectation that national courts would hold the registrant proxy service fully responsible for harm caused by a website hosted at the
domain name at issue. In other words, the Ninth Circuit decision that Susan highlighted would have been decided differently.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Once you introduce definitions concerning affiliates, retail services and different flavors of proxy services, the cheap ones with flimsy relationships, and
the expensive ones with fiduciary type relationships, it will appear to the court that you do not really mean what you saying in bullet number 6. This will confuse the courts (and the public) and the registrant proxy services is more likely to be able to
weasel out of being held liable.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The current proposal on the table suggests to me a somewhat more complicated model whereby the registrant proxy service is fully liable for the use of the domain
name but can shield that liability by adopted and fully complying the a specific set of reveal and relay processes etc. I voluntary set of best practices would not do this, but a mandatory set of provisions to qualify a proxy service for a “safe harbor” would.
Such a safe hard model would in my view be more difficult to implement and is likely to give rise to a certain amount of uncertainty and inconsistent outcomes even if prudently implemented. But this also assumes that we need to have a proxy service in which
proxies may shield themselves from liability. In all our discussions, I have still not heard a persuasive argument why a proxy service industry that can shield itself from liability is necessary or good or appropriate.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Seth
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org">rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org">mailto:rt4-whois-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Kathy Kleiman<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, November 30, 2011 12:24 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:rt4-whois@icann.org">rt4-whois@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Rt4-whois] streamlined proxy recommendation language</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi All,<br>
I feel like I am sending altogether too many emails today. Sorry :-)! Anyway, here's one more. I worked with James, a little, and Susan, more, on streamlining the Proxy recommendations to look, sound and flow like the Privacy recommendations. Of course, proxy
is voluntary, and privacy is a requirement, but the rest is fairly close. <br>
<br>
They are below and attached. If you like them, we'll send them on to Alice for inclusion. Note: the definitions went into a footnote which should be easy to see as it will be quite extensive.<br>
<br>
here's the text:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><b><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Data Access- Proxy Service
</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">ICANN should facilitate the review of existing practices by reaching out to proxy providers to create a discussion which sets out current processes followed by proxy service providers.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Registrars should be required to disclosure their relationship with any Affiliated Retail proxy service provider to ICANN.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="mso-margin-top-alt:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:0in;margin-left:.5in;margin-bottom:.0001pt;text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo4">
<![if !supportLists]><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span><![endif]><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">ICANN should develop and manage a set of voluntary best practice guidelines for appropriate proxy services [footnote 1] consistent with national laws. These voluntary guidelines should
strike an appropriate balance between stakeholders with competing but legitimate interests. At a minimum this would include privacy, law enforcement and the industry around law enforcement.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Such voluntary guidelines may include:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+ Proxy services provide full contact details as required by the Whois</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+ Publication by the proxy service of its process for revealing and relaying information</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+ Standardization of reveal and relay processes and timeframes, consistent with national laws</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+ Maintenance of a dedicated abuse point of contact for the proxy service provider</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">+ Due diligence checks on licensee contact information.
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">5. ICANN should encourage and incentivize registrars to interact with the retail service providers that adopt the best practices.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">6. For the avoidance of doubt, the WHOIS Policy, referred to in Recommendation 1 above, should include an affirmative statement that clarifies that a proxy means a relationship in which the Registrant is acting
on behalf of another. The WHOIS data is that of the agent, and the agent alone obtains all rights and assumes all responsibility for the domain name and its manner of use.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Footnote 1 (all the remaining text)<br>
As guidance to the Community and as useful background for the Proxy Service Recommendations, the Review Team provides its working definitions of proxy service and different types of proxy service providers:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="sdfootnote">- <b><u>Proxy Service</u> </b>– a relationship in which the registrant is acting on behalf of another The WHOIS data is that of the agent and the agent alone obtains all rights and assumes all responsibility for the domain name and its
manner of use. <i>[KK: is this the definition we are using in other places in the Report?]</i><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="sdfootnote"><i>- </i><b><u>Affiliated Registrar </u></b><u>- </u>another ICANN accredited registrar that operates under a common controlling interest (2009 Registrar Accreditation Agreement, Section 1.20)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="sdfootnote">- <b>Affiliate retail proxy service provider </b>– entity operating under a common controlling interest of a registrar.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="sdfootnote">- <b>Retail proxy service provider </b>- proxy service with little or no knowledge of the entity or individual requesting the service beyond their ability to pay and their agreement to the general terms and conditions.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-bottom:.0001pt"><span style="font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">-
<b><u>Limited proxy service provider </u></b>- proxy service for an entity or individual in which there is an ongoing business relationship bound by a contract that is specific to the relationship.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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