[tz] Comments and mapping of tz zones to the real world

Tobias Conradi tobias.conradi at gmail.com
Tue May 8 20:20:50 UTC 2012

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 8:16 PM, David Zülke
<david.zuelke at bitextender.com> wrote:
> On 08.05.2012, at 19:28, Tobias Conradi wrote:
>> On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Wallace, Malcolm <Malcolm.Wallace at sc.com> wrote:
>>>> Who is we?
>>>> This does not apply to what the IANA hosted tzdb project does. Do you
>>>> have a mailing list for your tzdb project?
>>>> Also it seems the Elz tzdb is much less known than the IANA / Olson
>>>> tzdb.
>>> I believe, when Robert says "we",
>>> he probably means himself, Arthur
>>> Olson, and Paul Eggert, who together have recently been the official
>>> maintainers of the IANA/Olson tzdb.
>> I see no indication on the mailing list that Robert Elz is the
>> spokesperson for Arthur David Olson.
> He's one of the official maintainers.
Who is "he" referring to? I think Arthur David Olson is one, but IIRC
Robert Elz too has been involved with maintaining.

>If you have a problem with that,
I don't have a problem with someone being a maintainer. If Robert Elz
is one, I just hope he is not going to delete the mapping comments for
the time zones for Indiana, because he doesn't seem to understand what
they can be used for:

Q: "Can you tell a way of how a user determines the correct zone for a
random location in Indiana,"

A: "No, no idea, not my problem.   The general process is that they select
whichever of those towns (or locations) has (and has had) clocks showing
the same time as their local clock,"

>>> in a manner that often comes across as rude and offensive.
>> That is your interpretation.
> That is not his interpretation, that is very likely
> the interpretation by the vast majority of people on this list.
An interpretation can be shared by different people. I didn't wrote
that it would be exclusively his interpretation.

> Stop being aggressive. Stop being abrasive.
> Stop being condescending.
Again, lack of any evidence for that to have been happened.

> Start saying "please",
You mean like in my first posting this year, after the old mailing
list archive had been moved:
Or in the second one:

Can David Zülke provide a list of how many "please" he expects from
every single mailing list contributor, including himself? Can he also
provide a list of how that was fulfilled?

> start saying "thank you",
You mean like here

Can David Zülke provide a list of how many "thank you" he expects from
every single mailing list contributor, including himself? Can he also
provide a list of how that was fulfilled?

> start being friendly.
I think this tz mailing list is for maintaining the tzdb. I don't see
that it is meant for exchanges friendly greetings.

> Stop interpreting the subtle and polite bits of feedback
> you have received regarding your behavior as personal attacks,
> and start treating them as hints on how to improve your communication style.
Looks a little bit as you would speak about the people that call my
mailings aggressive, abrasive etc. Maybe my mailings are a help for
them to improve their communication style, e.g. replacing "we" with
something more specific.

>>>  But if you persist with your
>>> current abrasive approach,
>> What do you think is my "current abrasive approach"? Can you show to
>> the list members some examples?
> Nobody needs examples, Tobias.
I didn't talk about a need. I asked whether you can.

>Everyone except you knows what he is talking about.
Well, I know a lot of people that don't even know about the tz mailing
list. But I educated several during the last weeks.

> It's the same kind of behavior that got
> you banned from Wikipedia (both de and en).
I think this claim without evidence is out of scope of the tz mailing list.

>Most of your feedback here is certainly valuable,
> but the way you get it across is, at best, counter-productive.
Counter-productive for what? If I point out errors in the tzdb or
related statements, then it is exactly what I want to do.

> Let me know if you'd like any specific pointers to what
> he might be referring to by "abrasive" off-list.
> I'll be happy to point them out if that helps you in the matter.
Thanks for this offer. I think if claims about my editing are made on
list, these claims should be backed by evidence on-list, or the claims
may be regarded on-list as unbacked by evidence.

Like sometimes newspapers are forced by law to put up corrections in
same size and at the same place where the original claim has been

Tobias Conradi
Rheinsberger Str. 18
10115 Berlin


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