[tz] Unacceptable recent changes [wasRe: [PATCH 2/4] Move obsolescent Americas entries to 'backward'.]

[Paul_Koning at Dell.com]

I agree.

While the primary focus of the TZ effort is complete coverage of dates from 1970 onward, it has a large body of knowledge relating to older dates.  The fact that the project has no commitment to make that older information 100% complete is not even remotely a valid argument for removing it outright.

	paul

On Aug 28, 2013, at 12:20 PM, Stephen Colebourne <scolebourne at joda.org> wrote:

> On 26 August 2013 18:16, Paul Eggert <eggert at cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
>> # Shanks & Pottenger say that Atikokan has agreed with Rainy River
>> # ever since standard time was introduced, but the information from
>> # McKinnon sounds more authoritative.  For now, assume that Atikokan
>> # switched to EST immediately after WWII era daylight saving time
>> # ended.  This matches the old (less-populous) America/Coral_Harbour
>> # entry since our cutoff date of 1970, so we can move
>> -# America/Coral_Harbour to the 'backward' file.
>> +# America/Coral_Harbour to the 'backward' file.  And Atikokan itself
>> +# is the same as America/Panama since 1970, so we can move
>> +# America/Atikokan to the 'backward' file as well.
>> -Zone America/Atikokan  -6:06:28 -      LMT     1895
>> -                       -6:00   Canada  C%sT    1940 Sep 29
>> -                       -6:00   1:00    CDT     1942 Feb  9 2:00s
>> -                       -6:00   Canada  C%sT    1945 Sep 30 2:00
>> -                       -5:00   -       EST
> 
> So if I understand correctly, all changes to Atikokan before 1970 have
> just been lost?
> 
> And they are supposed to use Panama from now on?
> 
> 
> Here is what JSR-310 can tell us about the two sets of rules:
> 
> America/Atikokan
> Transition[Gap at 1895-01-01T00:00-06:06:28 to -06:00]
> Transition[Gap at 1918-04-14T02:00-06:00 to -05:00]
> Transition[Overlap at 1918-10-27T02:00-05:00 to -06:00]
> Transition[Gap at 1940-09-29T00:00-06:00 to -05:00]
> 
> America/Panama
> Transition[Overlap at 1890-01-01T00:00-05:18:08 to -05:19:36]
> Transition[Gap at 1908-04-22T00:00-05:19:36 to -05:00]
> 
> Merging these is clearly utterly RIDICULOUS.
> 
> They contain completely different data, and the 1970 argument simply
> won't wash. Many users will have stored data in databases or other
> long term storage that refers to these time-zones being made obsolete.
> When they read the data back, they will get completely different times
> for historic events - utterly unacceptable.
> 
> More broadly, no one can pretend that the IDs we use are meaningless.
> Whether they should or should not have been created this way is not
> relevent - what matters is that these IDs are meningful and getting
> rid of them would be a disaster. The IDs are clearly localized, and
> they have a huge and longstanding usage globally. Panama is nowhere
> near Atikokan, nor would any reasonable user connect the two.
> 
> Paul, you need to STOP NOW.
> 
> You need to reverse the vast majority of your recent changes. Focus on
> actual changes happening in 2013. Keep the rest of the database
> totally and utterly stable. And just accept that there is a measure of
> politics incumbent in time-zones.
> 
> NONE of these changes should be happening. STABILITY is vital.
> 
> Stephen