[tz] KyivNotKiev

Phake Nick c933103 at gmail.com
Sat Nov 28 21:41:15 UTC 2020


If we really don't wamt to deal with localization issue then we should use
the original spelling instead of English/Latin Character transliteration
Your comment on English translation name being stable is rather inaccurate,
Alma-Ata have become Almaty, Bombay have become Mumbai, Leningrad have
become Saint Petersburg.


在 2020年11月29日週日 05:08,Brian Inglis <Brian.Inglis at systematicsw.ab.ca> 寫道:

> Folks,
>
> If we are regarding these as English identifiers, we should be ignoring
> all
> these political arguments, and *STOP* adding alternate spellings, exccept
> for
> technical reasons when time zones split or combine.
>
> Alternate spellings and scripts are localization issues that should be
> dealt
> with by the likes of CLDR and ICU libraries. If the characters to be used
> were
> not in the POSIX base character set, we would have no hesitation just
> saying
> *NO*; we should have no hesitation just saying *NO* to political
> arguments!
> Whether there are more occurrences on more sites should have no relevance
> once
> the identifier has been assigned, just as other location selection
> criteria such
> as population are considered irrelevant once an identifier has been
> assigned.
>
> We have dropped posixrules and eliminated many other legacy rules and
> zones, we
> should in the course of time, eliminate all the alternate spellings,
> keeping
> only the base zone identifiers.
>
> Otherwise we appear to have given up any basis for resisting these
> political
> complaints and we should just add a link anytime anyone has any political
> objection to how we identify it.
> If this change is made, I would promptly expect growing demands for more
> political changes, as we have been shown to waver in the face of political
> demands unrelated to technical issues.
> There will be more demands to change or add official or remove unofficial
> zone
> identifiers on political bases.
>
> And for most English speakers the locations under discussion will for
> decades
> continue to be referred to as Ukraine, Crimea, Sebastopol, Kiev, etc.
> regardless
> of what the locals want to call it or have others call it.
> Few English speakers will recognize or assign any meaning to new names,
> unless
> both appear together regularly with explanations on common social and
> tabloid
> media web sites, which is unlikely as it not click bait.
> Those sites will continue to use the old spellings, as their primary focus
> is
> getting their readers attention, with words they recognize and could use.
>
> --
> Take care. Thanks, Brian Inglis, Calgary, Alberta, Canada
>
>
> On 2020-11-28 11:38, Paul Eggert wrote:
> > On 11/27/20 9:54 AM, Matt Johnson-Pint wrote:
> >
> >> how hard is it to add a link? ...  We wouldn't even have to make the
> Kyiv
> >> spelling primary.
> >
> > This sounds like a good suggestion. We could add a link line as in the
> patch
> > below. This would be a test of the new feature of *forward*
> compatibility, not
> > *backward* compatibility, but it's pretty much the same thing as far as
> the
> > implementation goes so I'm not sure it's worth the hassle of creating a
> new
> > 'forward' file. Now that FreeBSD uses 'backward' along with everybody
> else,
> > putting this line in 'backward' means it should be supported by
> everybody who
> > cares about alternate names.
> >
> > I had already been meaning to move some other links to 'backward' for
> similar
> > reasons, but I figure we might as well do the tougher case first.
> >
> > I have not committed this patch, as the area is controversial.
> >
> > diff --git a/backward b/backward
> > index e13ae52..3327e58 100644
> > --- a/backward
> > +++ b/backward
> > @@ -1,9 +1,9 @@
> > -# tzdb links for backward compatibility
> > +# tzdb links for backward and forward compatibility
> >
> >
> >   # This file is in the public domain, so clarified as of
> >   # 2009-05-17 by Arthur David Olson.
> >
> >
> > -# This file provides links between current names for timezones
> > +# This section provides links between current names for timezones
> >   # and their old names.  Many names changed in late 1993.
> >
> >
> >   # Link TARGET                  LINK-NAME
> > @@ -130,3 +130,9 @@ Link        Etc/UTC                 UTC
> >   Link   Etc/UTC                 Universal
> >   Link   Europe/Moscow           W-SU
> >   Link   Etc/UTC                 Zulu
> > +
> > +
> > +# This section is for forward compatibility, where the primary name is
> > +# likely to change if current trends in common English usage continue.
> > +
> > +Link   Europe/Kiev             Europe/Kyiv
>
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