[tz] Fwd: Timezone issue

[Yaroslav Bilko]

Hi again.
Thanks for your answer. I'm glad to see that you are already moving in the
"Kyiv" direction.
I hope you came to the finish line very soon :)

About the pronunciation:
I'm not gonna check the transcription but it seems to be okay ([ˈkɪjiu̯]).
Audio from wiki is also correct but it's hard to percept from this super
short audio :)

Found the nice video with this topic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cE1f6GUvG5Y
Girl's pronunciation is accurate with great comments for English speakers.

The mess in the wiki should be fixed in the short perspective, the Ministry
of Culture is bombing with the requests from public organizations
leave only Kyiv.
And they promise to solve this last few months. We'll see.


Do these dialects all pronounce the city's name
> roughly the same, or are there significant variants?
>

Yeap, pronunciation is roughly the same in the common.
But in deep villages you may to hear Кійов, Кіїв or
even Кійув (Polissian) from old folks (and people from these villages and
countries).
I can't write a proper transcription for this, sorry.


If your software application is exposing the
> string "Europe/Kiev" to users who prefer a different name, please send
> bug reports mentioning CLDR to the application's developers.
>

Sure I did it many times but application support often says that it's
nothing they can do because the timezone name comes from the library their
application uses.
And library devs say they took timezone names from sources that lay deeper.
So we can see things like this: in the different corners of the internet
services.

[image: image.png]
or
[image: image.png]

On Fri, Jan 29, 2021 at 11:33 PM Paul Eggert <eggert at cs.ucla.edu> wrote:

> On 1/28/21 1:20 PM, Yaroslav Bilko wrote:
>
> > Ukraine started a official campaign (
> >
> https://mfa.gov.ua/news/67521-correctua-mzs-ukrajini-zvertajetysya-do-svitu-vzhivaj-kyivnotkiev
> > ) some time ago to show other countries and mass media that Kyiv is only
> > one true name.
>
> Thanks, we're aware of the renaming effort, and this has been a periodic
> source of discussion on the tz mailing list. I recently proposed a
> transition plan for Europe/Kiev → Europe/Kyiv here:
>
> https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2020-November/029542.html
>
> and I suggest you review that email thread. There's no rush; tzdb tends
> to move slowly about these things, due to software compatibility concerns.
>
> By the way, the choice of spelling should not be important to end users,
> as the tzdb spelling is not intended to be visible to them. End users
> should see their preferred spelling which would typically be Київ, but
> could also be Kyiv, Kænugarður, Κίεβο, 基輔, or whatever else is
> appropriate for the user's locale. The Unicode Common Locale Data
> Repository (CLDR) is a good source for these localized names; see
> <http://cldr.unicode.org/>. If your software application is exposing the
> string "Europe/Kiev" to users who prefer a different name, please send
> bug reports mentioning CLDR to the application's developers. Thanks.
>
>
> > many people say "Kiev" even in Ukraine, but their number is getting
> > down very fast.
>
> This is off-topic, but I'm curious about the pronunciation. I assume
> your "Kiev" refers to Russian pronunciation. I'm concerned more about
> pronunciation in English and in Ukrainian.
>
> Wikipedia <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyiv#cite_note-12> says the
> English-language pronunciation is "/ˈkiːɛv, -ɛf, kiːˈɛv, -ˈɛf/ KEE-ev,
> -⁠ef, kee-EV, -⁠EF, US also /kiːv/ KEEV" (what a mess, huh?) whereas the
> Ukrainian pronunciation is simply [ˈkɪjiu̯] with this audio transcription:
>
> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Uk-Київ.ogg
>
> Is that accurate? If so, English-language speakers aren't pronouncing
> the name very closely to Ukrainian even with the "Kyiv" spelling, and
> I'm wondering how to explain proper Ukrainian pronunciation to
> English-language speakers. Should I say that one should pronounce "v" as
> if it were "oo", for example?
>
> Also, there are several dialects of Ukrainian, such as middle Dnieprian
> and central Polissian. Do these dialects all pronounce the city's name
> roughly the same, or are there significant variants? Is the Wikipedia
> audio middle Dnieprian, for example?
>
>
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