[tz] Replacing the TZ Coordinator

Jon Skeet skeet at pobox.com
Sat Sep 25 05:49:54 UTC 2021

To be fair to Paul, a lot of the changes being objected to were reverted
Not all, by any means - 2021b *isn't* the "2021a + Samoa + Jordan" release
that many of us were hoping for. But I don't think the situation is quite
as stark as this mail implied. It's not like Paul just went ahead with the
2021b that he would no doubt have preferred to release.

(To be clear, 2021b isn't the release I'd have preferred either. I'd have
really liked to see the urgency taken out of the matter with a "2021a +
Samoa + Jordan" release, followed by more consultation. But I don't believe
Paul has been completely ignoring users, either.)

On Sat, 25 Sept 2021 at 02:11, Jacob Pratt via tz <tz at iana.org> wrote:

> Now that 2021b has been released containing changes that nearly the entire
> list was opposed to releasing at this point in time, are we certain this is
> the correct choice? I believe the combination of blatantly ignoring a
> near-unanimous majority of users, ignoring the real-world impacts of the
> changes, and actively insulting and demeaning users is sufficient reason to
> replace the coordinator.
> Jacob Pratt
> On Fri, Sep 24, 2021, 18:27 Stephen Colebourne via tz <tz at iana.org> wrote:
>> On Fri, 24 Sept 2021 at 23:12, Paul Eggert <eggert at cs.ucla.edu> wrote:
>> > On 9/22/21 11:06 AM, Stephen Colebourne via tz wrote:
>> > So, instead of the 2021a1-vs-2021b compromise I suggested earlier (which
>> > turns out to have important compatibility issues just with the name
>> > "2021a1"!) I now plan to compromise along the lines I suggested a dozen
>> > hours ago, here:
>> >
>> > https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2021-September/030686.html
>> >
>> > I.e., the idea is to revert most (but not all) of the objected-to
>> > changes. In particular, this will revert the changes to Europe/Oslo and
>> > Europe/Stockholm, which have drawn the most objections. The idea is to
>> > take the first step now, and to take more steps in future releases
>> > (which should not be distant-future releases, as we need to continue to
>> > make and exhibit a good-faith effort to fix the problem). This will let
>> > us generate just one version, 2021b.
>> >
>> > Although your followup
>> > <https://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2021-September/030689.html> didn't
>> > agree with the proposed compromise, it didn't reject it in quite the
>> > strong terms that I saw in earlier emails. And indeed, the proposed
>> > compromise is far closer to what you suggested than to what I suggested,
>> > as it replaces only 9 Zones with Links instead of 30-odd Zones. So it's
>> > a reasonable way forward, even if both of us dislike the compromise.
>> No. No, no, no.
>> I've talked about Oslo and Stockholm as examplars - I reject the whole
>> concept of link merging without a bigger plan. Merging ANY zones in
>> major world business centres will immediately impact any Joda-Time
>> user that updates their time-zone data themselves.
>> 9 changes instead of 30 changes is not helpful. The way out of this
>> mess is zero merges today and a rational discussion next week.
>> Stephen
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