<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'times new roman',serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><font face="'times new roman', serif"><div style="background-color:transparent;margin:0px">
<div></div></div><div style="background-color:transparent;margin:0px"><br></div><div style="background-color:transparent;margin:0px"><a href="https://plus.google.com/114199149796022210033" target="_blank">Mark</a></div><div style="background-color:transparent;margin:0px">
<i><br></i></div><div style="background-color:transparent;margin:0px"><i>— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —</i></div></font><div><div><font face="'times new roman', serif"><i><span style="font-style:normal"><i></i></span><i></i></i></font></div>
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<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Tobias Conradi <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mail.2012@tobiasconradi.com" target="_blank">mail.2012@tobiasconradi.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im">On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Mark Davis ☕ <<a href="mailto:mark@macchiato.com">mark@macchiato.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Variable length and inconsistent country code usage:<br>
><br>
> This is a misunderstanding.<br>
</div>Of the UN LOCODE system, on the side of CLDR designers.<br>
<div class="im"><br>
> CLDR is specified to use 5 letter UN LOCODEs where they exist. Where they do<br>
> not exist, it is specified to use a non-5-letter code, precisely so that<br>
> they do not overlap with future UN LOCODEs.<br>
</div>That could have been easily achieved with 5-letter codes, as has been shown at:<br>
<a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017974.html" target="_blank">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017974.html</a> and<br>
<a href="http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017980.html" target="_blank">http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/tz/2012-May/017980.html</a><br>
<br>
If overlap prevention the goal, then there was misunderstanding of the<br>
UN LOCODE system on the side of CLDR.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:'times new roman',serif">The only way that there would be a problem for CLDR is if the UN LOCODEs could be other than 5 alphanumerics.</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"></blockquote><div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default">
<br></div><div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default">According to <a href="http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/cefact/locode/unlocode_manual.pdf">http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/cefact/locode/unlocode_manual.pdf</a>, the UN LOCODE would be 5 letters and possibly numbers (in positions 3-5). As long as any additional CLDR identifiers did not match that, there wouldn't be an overlap. </div>
<div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default">So I don't understand your contention. Are you saying that UN LOCODEs, can in fact consist of other than 5 alphanumerics? If so, can you point us to the URL for that?</div>
<div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im"><br>
> When the codes are not 5<br>
> letters, the first two letters have no meaning.<br>
</div>Except where they have. And for some from the US, even the first 4<br>
have a meaning:<br>
debsngn: de = Germany<br>
gldkshvn: gl = Greenland<br>
mxstis: mx = Mexico<br>
rukhndg: ru = Russia<br>
ruunera: ru = Russia<br>
usinvev: us = US (usin = Indiana)<br>
usnavajo: us = US<br>
usndcnt: us = US (usnd = North Dakota)<br>
usndnsl: us = US (usnd = North Dakota)<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default">I should have said: When the codes are not 5 alphanumerics, the first two letters do not *necessarily* denote a country code.</div>
<div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class="im"><br>
> The codes are stablized, meaning that they will not change no matter what<br>
> changes happen in the base codes. So if Hawaii leaves the US and joins<br>
> Canada as a new province, "ushnl" would not change in CLDR even if the UN<br>
> LOCODE changes to "cahnl" or something else.<br>
</div>And combining this with "When the codes are not 5 letters, the first<br>
two letters have no meaning.", assuming that, if they have 5 letters<br>
they /may/ have a meaning, leads to the fact that the meaning in CLDR<br>
would be different from the meaning in the UN LOCODE system.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default">I don't understand what you are saying: that would only be an issue if there were overlaps.</div>
<div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default"></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
A statement on why a country relation was not seen suitable for time<br>
zone identifiers can be found at:<br>
<a href="ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/code/Theory" target="_blank">ftp://ftp.iana.org/tz/code/Theory</a><br>
"Be robust in the presence of political changes."<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default">That's fine for TZ codes. As far as CLDR is concerned, however, the main goal is to have an unambiguous, stable ID that is from 3-8 ASCII alphanumerics long and maps to TZ codes. The 3-8 ASCII limitation is imposed by BCP47, so we could not use the TZ codes unmodified. We could have chosen to simply number them, but decided that the UN LOCODEs would be a bit simpler to deal with.</div>
<div style="font-family:'times new roman',serif" class="gmail_default"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div class=""><div class="h5"><br>
--<br>
Tobias Conradi<br>
Rheinsberger Str. 18<br>
10115 Berlin<br>
Germany<br>
<br>
<a href="http://tobiasconradi.com" target="_blank">http://tobiasconradi.com</a><br>
<br>
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