<div dir="ltr">Just to weigh in from an Android OS perspective: the Europe/Dublin DST convention change is also problematic for the Android platform.<div><br></div><div>Most of what I would want to say has been said. Like many, I missed the discussion in December about this change and I'm not sure I would have grasped the full impact if I had.<div><br></div><div>I monitor the announcements list so it would have been most useful to me if this change had been flagged ahead of time there. I started looking at 2018a when I saw discussion internally to Google and I was surprised I hadn't seen an official announcement.<div><div><br></div><div>It might help to understand the impact of this change and the indirect influence and interactions that the tzdata has in Android so I've included some information below on my ongoing assessment as an FYI. The NITZ standard[1] is probably the worst interaction I've seen so far.<br></div><div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">In the meantime Android will probably have to take the same approach that ICU has and patch the IANA data, or wait for 2018c to hopefully reverse the convention back to what it was before.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">As always, thanks to all of you for keeping the world turning!</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Neil.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">-------------</div><div><br></div><div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The latest Android code is downstream from both OpenJDK and ICU, with some of it's own time zone code on the side. There is a custom implementation of classes like java.util.TimeZone, but also code for time zone detection used in smartphone devices.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">Android will be exposed to any problems that the ICU/OpenJDK maintainers mentioned, plus any in other OS libraries used that I haven't looked at yet.<br></div></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br class="m_-2099609405695728504gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div><div>Android uses tzdata in some places for transition calculations, but refers to ICU for things like names. There may be other interactions. If the tzdata had one interpretation, and ICU had another, Android's formatting code might return (for example) Irish Standard Time in Winter.<br></div></div><br class="m_-2099609405695728504gmail-Apple-interchange-newline">I found a long-standing bug in the Android java.util.TimeZone code that forces the DST adjustment to always be >= 0 and another elsewhere that (obviously incorrectly) assumes DST always means +1 hour. </div><div><br></div><div><div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The time zone detection code on Android can use the time zone offset data it has available on device and compare it against information sent by the carrier via NITZ[1] to see if it can identify the user's time zone.</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">The NITZ documentation says:</div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><div>"When the LTZ is compensated for DST (summertime), the serving PLMN shall provide a DST parameter to indicate this. The adjustment for DST can be +1h or +2h."</div><div><br></div></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial">I'm looking into whether carriers / networks in Ireland have made the same interpretation as the new IANA data. I suspect their hands are tied by the NITZ standard which would probably prevent them passing a negative number. There's probably a feedback loop here between the NITZ standard, what carriers will send and what devices can accept that might take a while to stabilize on any new convention, if it happens at all.<br></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial"><br></div></div><div>From a support perspective, Android has three cohorts to deal with:</div><div><br></div><div>1) Devices running older versions of Android for which OEMs are still providing over-the-air (OTA) system image updates. These can potentially take code patches to correct issues.</div><div><br></div><div>2) Devices running older versions of Android that have the ability to receive time zone rules data updates but not code.</div><div><br></div><div>3) Latest code under development for future Android releases.</div><div><br></div><div>If the Europe/Dublin change "sticks" in tzdata, the likely course for supporting existing devices would be to patch the Android tzdata and pretend the Europe/Dublin shift hasn't happened. Future devices could potentially support negative DST adjustments if all the problems are caught in advance.<br></div><div><br></div><div>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NITZ" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/<wbr>wiki/NITZ</a> , see reference 1 for the standard I quoted</div><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="m_-2099609405695728504gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>Google UK Limited<br><br>Registered Office: 6 Pancras Square, London, N1C 4AG<br>Registered in England Number: 3977902</div></div></div></div></div>
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