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    <p>I suggested a completely backward compatible approach.</p>
    <p>Downstream consumers can have a form of the data that looks as it
      does now.</p>
    <p>The argument we are supposedly trying to make is that NOBODY
      should be presenting these names to users - they should be using
      the tzid as a key to a localized lookup so UI wise there's no
      difference. I don't think we can use 'misuse' of those names as a
      reason not to change.<br>
    </p>
    <p>There is also the point that some are reluctant to use the Olson
      data at least because it's tied to politically sensitive names.
      Having the originators maintain a UID at least satisfies that
      problem.</p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/4/18 13:02, Fred Gleason wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:B83EF99E-8CDF-410B-917F-8B66A1D82A52@paravelsystems.com">
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      On Oct 4, 2018, at 12:35, John Haxby <<a
        href="mailto:john.haxby@oracle.com" class=""
        moz-do-not-send="true">john.haxby@oracle.com</a>> wrote:
      <div class=""><br class="">
        <div>
          <blockquote type="cite" class="">
            <div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica;
                font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps:
                normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal;
                orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
                text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto;
                word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
                float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">I
                think, even so, this will not fix the problem.  Instead
                of complaining about the Europe/Kiev name, they'll be
                complaining about the spelling of the mapping from an
                opaque identifier to Europe/Kiev.</span></div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
        <br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Exactly. At *some* point in the chain, these zones
        need to get turned into geographical names that people can
        recognize. In some regions, that naming process is fraught with
        dispute and emotion; unfortunately, due to the very nature of
        what tzdb is and does, we are never going to be free from that
        aspect. Thus, changing the current identifiers would merely add
        confusion for users and complexity to the code without
        addressing the essence of the issue.</div>
    </blockquote>
    Yes - these discussions are always fraught with dispute and emotion.
    <br>
    <p>The point here is to distance this group that maintains the zone
      data from some other group that does localization. With a little
      care most consumers of the data won't see the difference.<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:B83EF99E-8CDF-410B-917F-8B66A1D82A52@paravelsystems.com">
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">That cartoon from Xkcd posted here last week [<a
          href="https://xkcd.com/2050/" class="" moz-do-not-send="true">https://xkcd.com/2050/</a>]
        somehow feels relevant…  :)</div>
    </blockquote>
    I think that cartoon identifies the type of discussion that SHOULD
    take place in this group. <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:B83EF99E-8CDF-410B-917F-8B66A1D82A52@paravelsystems.com">
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">Cheers!</div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class=""><br class="">
      </div>
      <div class="">
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
          font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
            style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">|----------------------------------------------------------------------|</span></div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
          font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
            style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">|
            Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. |              Chief Developer    
                    |</span></div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
          font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
            style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">|
                                      |              Paravel Systems    
                    |</span></div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
          font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
            style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">|----------------------------------------------------------------------|</span></div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
          font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
            style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">| 
                    A room without books is like a body without a soul.
                    |</span></div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
          font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
            style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">|
                                                    -- Cicero           
                    |</span></div>
        <div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
          font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
            style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures" class="">|----------------------------------------------------------------------|</span></div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
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