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<p>I happen to agree with Mike that the naming of the zones can be
extracted out as meta-data to go along with the tz rulesets. The
IANA db can use UUIDs, urns or whatever to label the zones and
also provide a mapping from the current names to the opaque ids.
Consumers of the data can use the existing mapping or create their
own.<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/04/2018 01:42 PM, Michael
Douglass wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:052c2adc-bc5b-c6d5-6296-cbbe7a0be168@gmail.com">
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<p>I suggested a completely backward compatible approach.</p>
<p>Downstream consumers can have a form of the data that looks as
it does now.</p>
<p>The argument we are supposedly trying to make is that NOBODY
should be presenting these names to users - they should be using
the tzid as a key to a localized lookup so UI wise there's no
difference. I don't think we can use 'misuse' of those names as
a reason not to change.<br>
</p>
<p>There is also the point that some are reluctant to use the
Olson data at least because it's tied to politically sensitive
names. Having the originators maintain a UID at least satisfies
that problem.</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/4/18 13:02, Fred Gleason wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B83EF99E-8CDF-410B-917F-8B66A1D82A52@paravelsystems.com">
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charset=utf-8">
On Oct 4, 2018, at 12:35, John Haxby <<a
href="mailto:john.haxby@oracle.com" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">john.haxby@oracle.com</a>> wrote:
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align:
start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display:
inline !important;" class="">I think, even so, this
will not fix the problem. Instead of complaining
about the Europe/Kiev name, they'll be complaining
about the spelling of the mapping from an opaque
identifier to Europe/Kiev.</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Exactly. At *some* point in the chain, these zones
need to get turned into geographical names that people can
recognize. In some regions, that naming process is fraught
with dispute and emotion; unfortunately, due to the very
nature of what tzdb is and does, we are never going to be free
from that aspect. Thus, changing the current identifiers would
merely add confusion for users and complexity to the code
without addressing the essence of the issue.</div>
</blockquote>
Yes - these discussions are always fraught with dispute and
emotion. <br>
<p>The point here is to distance this group that maintains the
zone data from some other group that does localization. With a
little care most consumers of the data won't see the difference.<br>
</p>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B83EF99E-8CDF-410B-917F-8B66A1D82A52@paravelsystems.com">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">That cartoon from Xkcd posted here last week [<a
href="https://xkcd.com/2050/" class=""
moz-do-not-send="true">https://xkcd.com/2050/</a>] somehow
feels relevant… :)</div>
</blockquote>
I think that cartoon identifies the type of discussion that SHOULD
take place in this group. <br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:B83EF99E-8CDF-410B-917F-8B66A1D82A52@paravelsystems.com">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Cheers!</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">|----------------------------------------------------------------------|</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">| Frederick F. Gleason, Jr. | Chief
Developer |</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">| |
Paravel Systems |</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">|----------------------------------------------------------------------|</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">| A room without books is like a body
without a soul. |</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">| --
Cicero |</span></div>
<div style="margin: 0px; font-size: 11px; line-height: normal;
font-family: Menlo;" class=""><span
style="font-variant-ligatures: no-common-ligatures"
class="">|----------------------------------------------------------------------|</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Ken Murchison
Cyrus Development Team
FastMail US LLC</pre>
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