[UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Nelson, Nick
nicknels at amazon.com
Tue Feb 17 16:49:02 UTC 2015
Echoing everyone elses concerns. I think back a lot to Ira Magaziners statement about being humble and not forgetting the impact that domains have on developing countries globally. Those will include both IDN and ASCII, and I'd reckon that UA is a huge issue in these developing countries.
I like the term "Universal Acceptance" for what it is. If we focus on IDN we'll turn off a lot of North America/Europe, we're struggling enough to get ASCII's accepted (looking at you Skype!)
________________________________
From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] on behalf of Pinky Brand [TLD Registry Ltd] [pinky.brand at internetregistry.info]
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 8:33 AM
To: Jordyn Buchanan
Cc: ua-discuss at icann.org
Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
As a registry operator of two delegated IDNs, there is no doubt that IDNs offer their own unique set of challenges to be addressed.
With that said, I agree with previous comments by others that UA is not just an IDN issue, but an overall "domain" issue. For one, getting all search engines to index all of the delegated new gTLDs would be be a start.
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On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:53 AM, Jordyn Buchanan <jordyn at google.com<mailto:jordyn at google.com>> wrote:
Thanks, Rich--I think you make this point nicely. The point of universal acceptance is just that--all domain names (and e-mail addresses) should work roughly equivalently everywhere. Although IDNs may pose some unique challenges, I think it's a mistake to break down the mission into separate tracks or separate prioritizations at this stage. At first glance, many bad behaviors (e.g., "no TLDs can be longer than six characters") will affect both IDN and ASCII TLDs equally, and these problems are equally worthy of being worked on as issues that affect either IDNs or ASCII domain names (or, for that matter, issues that are unique to EAI).
More generally, I'd like to add some concurrence to a point hat Kurt made--as our letter captured, we're trying to set up a steering committee which will help coordinate a wide variety of different work efforts, some of which will need to be spun up by this effort and others that will just need to be recognized in order to avoid de-duplication. We don't need to get the mission perfectly right immediately, other than in the broadest strokes, and I'd hate to see us get off to an overly narrow goal right off the bat if the overall imperative here is to serve as a general coordinating body.
Jordyn
On Tue, Feb 17, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Richard Merdinger <rmerdinger at godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger at godaddy.com>> wrote:
While I appreciate the fact that IDN issues are, in many ways, a superset of the issues faced by other domains/TLDs that exhibit acceptance issues, I really think that we need to continue to consider this UA effort a "domain" issue and not a new gTLD issue, IDN issue, or even a TLD issue.
My view is that we decompose the UA issue into component issue areas and attack them, irrespective of labels that could inadvertently/inaccurately attach the perception of agendas that could ultimately thwart the effort.
Richard Merdinger
VP, Domains
e: rmerdinger at godaddy.com<mailto:rmerdinger at godaddy.com>
s: richard.merdinger
m: 319.530.4100<tel:319.530.4100>
-----Original Message-----
From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Dusan Stojicevic
Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 6:14 AM
To: ua-discuss at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss at icann.org>
Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
Dear all,
Although I think that IDN is a big, maybe major question in UA, I must say that I agree with Mark and Michele.
IDN problem is part of UA, but UA is a much broader concept.
Those people from the list who had the misfortune to meet me, will be surprised.
Regards,
Dušan
Serbian ccTLD registry
On 17.2.2015 12:43, Mark McFadden wrote:
> Edmon:
>
> While risking agreeing with Michele on this, I'd say that I'm very fond of the "U" in "UA" - that is, I think we should be focusing on Universal Acceptance and not IDN Acceptance. By breaking the problem into two parts, I think we may be heading for a better, crisper problem statement. There are problems in many settings - for instance, problems with acceptance of "long" strings, problems with acceptance of IDN scripts, problems in display, problems in EAI, etc. etc.
>
> It might be better not to focus on IDNs until we had a more precise definition of "how universal" our approach to Universal Acceptance is going to be.
>
> mark
>
> Mark McFadden
> Principal Consultant, Internet Infrastructure and Governance
> InterConnect Communications
>
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> From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org> [ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>] On
> Behalf Of Michele Neylon - Blacknight [michele at blacknight.com<mailto:michele at blacknight.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 11:40 AM
> To: Edmon Chung; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP'
> Cc: UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org>
> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
>
> Edmon
>
> I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with you on this.
>
> If, for example, I was trying to get a bunch of Irish web developers or software engineeers to code better and support ALL tlds then they're not going to be motivated by IDNs.
>
> Telling them that their bad code choices is blocking English speaking users from using their new (Latin script) domains might be a motivator.
>
> I also don't think the IDN banner helps rally people. It would help rally *some* people, but I'm not convinced that they're the ones who need the most rallying.
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> http://www.blacknight.host/
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
> http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072> Direct Dial: +353
> (0)59 9183090
> Social: http://mneylon.social
> -------------------------------
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> From: Edmon Chung [mailto:edmon at registry.asia<mailto:edmon at registry.asia>]
> Sent: 17 February 2015 01:13
> To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; 'Mark Svancarek'; 'Nelson, Nick'; 'Christian Dawson'; 'Ram Mohan SMTP'
> Cc: UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org>
> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
>
> I agree with you Michele that this is not an issue limited to IDNs, however, I still believe that if we solve the IDN issue, we will solve the ASCII new TLD issue.
>
> So as a "moral high ground" if you will, for ICANN with this as a community-wide project, I think it is better to have IDN be the "primary" focus so that it gets the support from the whole community. If we had a primary focus on ASCII TLDs, I worry we will lose the support we need from many parts of the community.
>
> That is not to say we only focus on IDN. But the IDN banner I believe helps us rally this as a global effort for the Internet.
>
> Edmon
>
>
>
>
> From:
> ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>>
> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon -
> Blacknight
> Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2015 9:03 AM
> To: Mark Svancarek; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP
> Cc: UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org>>
> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
>
> Mark
>
> That's good, but that's assuming that Universal Acceptance is limited to IDNs, whereas in reality the issue is much wider. At present a lot of online services and software do not recognise new TLDs - be they ASCII or IDN.
> So while incorporating that language is excellent, I'd hate to see
> IDNs as being the primary focus Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> http://www.blacknight.host/
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
> http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072> Direct Dial: +353
> (0)59 9183090
> Social: http://mneylon.social
> -------------------------------
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
> ________________________________
> From: Mark Svancarek [marksv at microsoft.com<mailto:marksv at microsoft.com>]
> Sent: 16 February 2015 21:43
> To: Michele Neylon - Blacknight; Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram
> Mohan SMTP
> Cc: UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org>>
> Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
> Yes, I also agree with Michele and Nick.
>
> As a starter:
>
> "International character sets, whether in Unicode or Punycode, are inconsistently managed by existing software products and existing online services. These inconsistencies arise both from non-support of the RFCs or from support for outdated versions of these RFCs.
>
> Software and service providers have historically had little market or regulatory incentive to invest in solutions which would bring true interoperability to platforms or applications. Democratization of computing and greater availability of Internationalized Domain Names are likely to upset this status quo.
>
> A coordinated industry effort is required to ensure a timely and practical resolution to this pending change."
>
>
>
> From:
> ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>>
> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Michele Neylon -
> Blacknight
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:43 AM
> To: Nelson, Nick; Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP
> Cc: UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org>>
> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
>
> I'd agree with Nick
>
> Defining the problem should be key
> Everything else comes after that
>
> Regards
>
> Michele
>
> --
> Mr Michele Neylon
> Blacknight Solutions
> Hosting, Colocation & Domains
> http://www.blacknight.host/
> http://blog.blacknight.com/
> http://www.blacknight.press - get our latest news & media coverage
> http://www.technology.ie Intl. +353 (0) 59 9183072<tel:%2B353%20%280%29%2059%20%209183072> Direct Dial: +353
> (0)59 9183090
> Social: http://mneylon.social
> -------------------------------
> Blacknight Internet Solutions Ltd, Unit 12A,Barrowside Business
> Park,Sleaty Road,Graiguecullen,Carlow,Ireland Company No.: 370845
>
> From:
> ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>>
> [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>] On Behalf Of Nelson, Nick
> Sent: 16 February 2015 17:39
> To: Christian Dawson; Ram Mohan SMTP
> Cc: UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org>>
> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
>
> I'm coming in a bit late but that gives me good perspective and I think the total list from Ram is accurate. However, I'd argue that both Christian is right with defining structure and charger, but also first - we should define the Problem space.
>
> The problem space to me is ultimately why we're all here right. "What are we trying to solve for?" and even more so, "How is this group going to benefit the ultimate end-user?"
> ________________________________
> From:
> ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org><mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>>
> [ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org>] on behalf of Christian Dawson
> [dawson at i2coalition.com<mailto:dawson at i2coalition.com>]
> Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 9:22 AM
> To: Ram Mohan SMTP
> Cc: UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org><mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org<mailto:UA-discuss at icann.org>>
> Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] What are the main things to do in UASG?
> Ram,
>
> I think this is a good list with one proposed change. I am 3-4 pages into a draft charter for people to look at, which proposes a structure. I'd say we need an agreed-on structure before we pick leaders to fill defined roles, so I suggest flipping 1 and 2.
>
> I probably can't get far enough along to put my draft charter up for
> review until tomorrow - chairing a small anti-SPAM working group on
> SPAM in the Cloud at M3AAWG today. (If anybody else from this group is
> at M3AAWG come find me and we can chat/complain about timezones
> together.)
>
> -Christian
>
> On Feb 14, 2015, at 11:21 AM, Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info<mailto:rmohan at afilias.info><mailto:rmohan at afilias.info<mailto:rmohan at afilias.info>>> wrote:
>
> Team,
> Trying to get an inventory of the main tasks in front of the UASG, in chronological order:
>
> 1. Group leadership
> 2. Group structure and charter
> 3. Definition of problem space
> 4. Prioritization of problem space
> 5. Definition of approach to problem spaces
> 6. Delegation of work
> 7. Execution of work
> 8. Follow-through
>
> Appreciate input.
>
> -Ram
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> Ram Mohan
> Executive Vice President & CTO
> Afilias |Ireland|Canada|USA|India
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