[UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay

[Dusan Stojicevic]

Dear Ron, Lars,

Thank You both for contributing to the list, but this became off-topic.
My fault is also here, and I want to apologize and explain what I thought it's obvious.

This list is for discussion on UA issues and we're not discussing icann, Western or eastern politics. Icann is not the topic here, and there are other lists dedicated for changing and challenging icann multistake holder model. Try IANA transition or icann accountability wg's.

We all read this list. And whenever you disagree, you must listen to others. F.E.   when discussing logo, there are bunch of them who literally voted for this sign, and there is only you that have strong different opinion. On the other hand, if You don't like the logo, it doesn't mean that you didn't contribute. You added a flavor, bit of questioning inside every head, whether it's good or bad choice. But, nobody has changed his mind and the decision was made. 

If you continue to blame for this "lousy" decision icann, msh model, invent playbook or continue to talk off topic then You simply - trolling. It's not about who is right or wrong, it's a discussion. There can be as many opinion as number of participants of the list, and if we don't listen to others and make compromises, there will be no solution.

You must get the sense why we are here and what's need to be done, and that there is a lot of people who may think differently. That's why we all need to listen eachothers, keep avoiding stereotypes, and try helping. 

And if You want to continue to prove that only your opinion is right and everything else is wrong, then it's obvious how you get your playbook for icann wg's. It's not about wg's, it's about you. You are listening only yourself, and moderators are simply fulfilling your wishes.

Along with my apologies, I want to tell you that by listening you learn. By pushing only your opinion and not listening others - the list is not for you, because what you're doing is not discussion. 

My apologies also for this off topic mail.

Cheers,
Dusan

Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona

---- Ron Baione via UA-discuss je napisao/la ----

>Lars, 
>
>I'm contributing when I can, reading and learning as well, but try to disagree with the system or criticize it and see how those who demand obedience to their heirarchy of employement status call you "a troll". ICANN's system doesn't know any other way to respond to criticism than using the playbook to get rid of the criticizer. Or they don't respond at all, in the case of the symbol used on UA documents depicting a face without a mouth and the words Universal Acceptance where the mouth would be. I intellectually challenge you to criticize ICANN as a test to see if I am correct.
>
>Ron
>
>
>From: Lars Steffen <lars.steffen at eco.de>; 
>To: 'Ron Baione' <ron.baione at yahoo.com>; Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>; 
>Cc: ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>; 
>Subject: AW: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today	regarding Google Pay 
>Sent: Mon, Nov 16, 2015 12:04:25 PM 
>
>
>I don´t want to add any fuel to this but as a quite new member in the ICANN community as well I can´t agree with the described “ICANN playbook”. I still feel welcomed. And I do it like Dusan already described: Reading, learning and contributing to the topic – when I can. Works out really fine.
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Lars
>
> 
>
>Von: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] Im Auftrag von Ron Baione via UA-discuss
>Gesendet: Freitag, 13. November 2015 04:12
>An: Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>
>Cc: ua-discuss at icann.org
>Betreff: Re: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay
>
> 
>
>Dus, 
>
>I was more than half way through ICANN learn courses when Jeffrey Dunn updated the courses to be incompatible with my IPad (IOS 6.0 and greater compatibility). I asked him about what IOS ICANN learn would be compatible with and he claimed he didn't know what the courses were compatible with post-update, then, after deflecting the question until people got annoyed with the conversation, he said he did know. They key to the delay was that once people get annoyed, they tend to blame the new person rather than the knowledgable veteran, as they purposefully forget how the annoying conversation began. 
>
>The ICANN playbook is the same in every group, it is a tried and true method to get rid of new people who don't "stay quiet" and are accused of being off the "topic", which is what is claimed as most important. The truth is most people here have other high paying jobs and they don't want to see emails from people they never heard of in their inbox as they try to do those difficult tasks. And even though there is no current "topic", (someone would have said what the current topic is by now) once someone claims the new person must "stick to the topic", the remaining steps play out as follows:
>
>1) Accuse new person who doesn't stay quiet of spamming
>2) Ask who the heck this new person is, affiliation, and then say you never heard of the person
>3) Call new person a troll
>4) After a few responses, back and forth, accuse the new person of "disruption"
>5) Bring Disruptive matter to attention of group chair and ombudsman
>6) First warning issued to new person for disruption
>7) Second warning issued to new person for disruption
>8) 15 day ban for disruption
>
>Right now we are on step 4. 
>
>But think about it, Tim Cook claimed the internet would Universally Accept a cashless society, and an internet group called Universal Acceptance can't find a degree of relevance in his claim to its mission and charter, and he's the biggest Tech CEO on the planet. Pure irony to replace that interesting discussion with a claim of disrupting a non-existent topic, simply so that the people here with regular jobs don't have to "waste precious time" reading the posts of a so-assumed "nobody". 
>
>Multistakeholderism failure at its worst if you ask me. If ICANN can't incorporate current new people who talk, then how can ICANN be trusted to incorporate new people who talk after the transition? ICANN group members want these groups closed off to the public in my opinion, but they can't do that. Heck if I had a big time job at hoogle I wouldn't want to read this post either, I wouldn't want to comment on Tim Cook. I understand. But people shouldn't have signed up for a multistakeholder group if they can't deal with the potential of a new person they never heard of who talks, rather they should go work for a run of the mill corporation, which they already do. 
>
>Ron
>
> 
>
>From: Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>; 
>To: Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>; 
>Cc: <ua-discuss at icann.org>; 
>Subject: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay 
>Sent: Fri, Nov 13, 2015 1:16:01 AM 
>
> 
>
>Ron,
>
>Thanks, that reminds me... I wasn't so clever and active as You at the beginning, I was quiet, doing reading and learning... and I was always using my real name, so people always knew who I am. Also, I didn't put the politics in my mails, like you did. 
>
>Thanks, again for unreal reply, and if I may say so - 
>if you want to continue to troll, please go somewhere else.
>
>Dusan 
>
>Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona
>
> 
>
>
>---- Ron Baione je napisao/la ----
>
>I was a grassroots newbie accepted just 3 months ago into ISOC NY, and I am participating in IGF, ISOC, ARIN and ICANN mailing lists and trying to learn as quickly as possible so that 4 or 5 years from now I can begin traveling around the world to be a knowledgeable conference participant. Since I only have the first version of the IPad, my ability to participate in calls via my IPad is not compatible with adobe connect, unfortunately. 
>
> 
>
>From: Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>; 
>To: Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>; Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>; Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>; 
>Cc: <ua-discuss at icann.org>; 
>Subject: ODG: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay 
>Sent: Fri, Nov 13, 2015 12:20:36 AM 
>
> 
>
>Ron,
>
>Somehow curious: I didn't catch your affiliation, community, country... Maybe it's my fault, apologize for that if so, but I didn't saw you on any call or meeting and I don't know you. If You be so kind to introduce yourself better. Thank you in advance. 
>
>Dusan
>
>Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona
>
> 
>
>
>---- Ron Baione via UA-discuss je napisao/la ----
>
>Fair enough, you and Ram don't believe that the involved process of uncirculating all physical money, as well as the memory of that physical money having ever existed in the first place, within the time-frame of one generation of people, is relevant to domain names in any way.
>
>Moving on then, the previous topic was whether or not there should be a hackathon at ICANN55, and as that seems to have been resolved, what is the current topic? Is it reverting back to the topic before that, whether or not google translator shows the link when adding a link to it?
>
>Ron
>
> 
>
>From: Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>; 
>To: Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>; Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>; 
>Cc: ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>; 
>Subject: RE: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay 
>Sent: Thu, Nov 12, 2015 9:54:51 PM 
>
> 
>
>Ron, we’re about domain names and email addresses, nothing else.  Anything not related to those topics, such as this thread, are random distractions.  Please stay on topic.
>
> 
>
>From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Ram Mohan
>Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:10 PM
>To: Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>
>Cc: ua-discuss at icann.org
>Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay
>
> 
>
>This is close to spamming the list.
>
> 
>
>From: Ron Baione [mailto:ron.baione at yahoo.com] 
>Sent: Thursday, November 12, 2015 3:39 PM
>To: Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>
>Cc: ua-discuss at icann.org
>Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay
>
> 
>
>NASA has stated many times that a solar storm could temporarily knock out out the power grid, and without physical money at that hypothetical juncture, people will have to barter. Other possibilities exist now and in the future which make it realistic to expect the safe guard of physical money to stick around at least a few more generations incase of a failed grid event, unless Tim Cook knows thhe future and he knows there will never be a Solar Storm ever again, it just boggles the mind how someone so connected to thoughtful people, especially in the cyber-security industry, could completely discount and disregard Solar activity, where taking money out of circulation would cause a 100% reliance on technology for payments. It would take a while, too long, to reprint and recirculate physical money if that became necessary.
>
>In regards to this topic being relevant to Universal Acceptance's charter, it is because Tim Cook is an influential person in the tech industry and added confusion about the future of the internet, stating there will be a mandatory degree of restricted learning and restricted knowledge conveyance to the next generation via a process only he seems to know about. The language and code additions UA is making in regards to language and other internet necessities should not be deterred, affected by or confused in that described dystopian future by such an unclarified, alternate vision of the future internet. 
>
>How can any ICANN working group perform its function to the best of ts abilities, building a better and inclusive internet, when arguably the top Tech CEO in the world alludes to being privy to a future reality ICANN isn't privy to? And if Apple asserts that the next generation will not know what money is, and ICANN and Apple are in the same exact industry, then ICANN has a responsibility in my opinion to at least ask someone at Apple how such an implausible reality will be made possible. 
>
>Non-germane topics would more likely include gardening, sports and/or fashion advice. One possibility I thought of as to why such a vague statement was put out there by Tim, is that since everything about the tech industry's daily grind must be exact and precise, once it is time to speak people subconciously go to the opposite mindset extreme, talking vaguely in an effort to even out their robotic and exhaustive efforts with what feels like an excercise in philosophy. As a solution to the recurrence of such subconsious rebalancing of the precision-based mindset with philosophical vague assertions, language graduates should be hired by the tech industry to advise industry leaders on how to limit overall global confusion via their spoken words, symbols and slogans, to speed up progress. 
>
>Ron
>
> 
>
>From: Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>; 
>To: Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>; 
>Cc: <ua-discuss at icann.org>; 
>Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay 
>Sent: Thu, Nov 12, 2015 1:50:46 PM 
>
> 
>
>This is not germane to the universal acceptance topic or charter.
>
>Ram
>
>On Nov 11, 2015 9:51 PM, "Ron Baione via UA-discuss" <ua-discuss at icann.org> wrote:
>
>This email is to request comment from Brent and any Apple representatives regarding Google Pay being recently invoked by Apple CEO Timothy Cook as one of two major "buying and selling" systems within an inevitable cashless society, the other being Apple's pay system:
>
>Timothy stated, "The next generation will not know what money is.". All members of UA and ICANN should be brought up to speed on Timothy's assertion that learning restrictions will be being applied to ICANN and the internet, so that the rest of us can know exactly how such a feat of history deletion and restrictions on the learning and conveyance of historical knowledge would be logically accomplished in such a short period of time. For example:
>
>1) Would older generations not be allowed to describe physical money to younger generations? 
>
>2) What date will those conveyance and learning restrictions begin? 
>
>3) Will UA and ICANN be forced to participate in the deletion of all photographs, records and mentions of physical money from the internet? 
>
>4) Will libraries be forced to discard books that mention or depict physical money? 
>
>5) Will ccwg-accountability have to add language to their proposal for the NTIA to resteict future ICANN members from using their connections to Apple and Google against other ICANN members they disagree with on a certain issues as a future intimidation tactic?
>
>6) Is Timothy Cook asserting personal, intellectual control over the next generation of people by claiming to know, without any doubt, what they will and will not know or be able to learn about at an unspecified time of his choosing?
>
>It is one thing to claim that the next generation will not use physical money, but to make such an assertion on what human beings will be aware of and learn about in terms of what they can and cannot learn, as Timothy made, seems to be a stretch of the imagination. Unless of course, Brent and any Apple representatives can fill the rest of us in, respectfully, on the vague process alluded to by Timothy Cook today. If the CEO of a major corporation can assert what humans can possibly learn about in the future, should not such an assertion be at least considered by ICANN's and UA's mission of a free and open internet for all? 
>
>Ron
>
> 
>
>From: Rubens Kuhl <rubens at registro.br>; 
>To: Don Hollander <don.hollander at icann.org>; 
>Cc: ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>; 
>Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Hackathon @ ICANN55 
>Sent: Thu, Nov 12, 2015 12:18:09 AM 
>
> 
>
>
>> On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:20 PM, Don Hollander <don.hollander at icann.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Here’s my take on the Hackathon idea @ ICANN55:
>> 
>> 1) ICANN is a technology conference and there would be few technology conferences of its size held in the region.  
>> 2) I note that ICANN is generally around policies, but there are still a lot of geeks there
>
>ccTLD activities at ICANN are usually of a more technical tone, and ccTLDs are the most used domains in the AF region, not gTLDs. Involving the local IDN ccTLDs might be key to attract more geeks. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Rubens
>
> 
>
> 
>
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