[UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay

Tue Nov 17 11:10:27 UTC 2015

Luckily there is a google filter to filter messages from you. I will mark
you as spam from now on.

Etuate Cocker

On Wed, Nov 18, 2015 at 12:04 AM, Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Not clear at all, Dus has incessently been antagonizing and re-bringing up
> this discussion, with other playbookers jumping in to gang up, and with the
> only objections directed towards me, proof that a one-sided coin does
> exist. Quite a miracle of selective criticism if you ask me. What's the
> current topic (4 days waiting for the current topic)?
>
> Ron
>
> ------------------------------
> * From: * Etuate Cocker <eduade.2001 at gmail.com>;
> * To: * Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
> * Cc: * Ron Baione via UA-discuss <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
> * Subject: * Re: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim
> Cook's comments today regarding Google Pay
> * Sent: * Tue, Nov 17, 2015 6:53:10 AM
>
> Clearly this person - Ron is spamming all of our Inboxes. Please stay
> offline so we can at least discuss something meaningful. The mailing list
> is not for you to dominate with meaningless topics. Please do yourself a
> favor and think before you send us all your spams.
>
> Etuate Cocker
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 7:48 PM, Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>
> wrote:
>
>> Ron
>>
>> There is no point to respond to my mail, I didn't ask you anything. If
>> you want a guide to the list about topics, you didn't get any of my
>> writings. By responding to my mail you are continuing to push your points
>> about playbook and it's trolling.
>>
>> It's all about you, not wg's, it's not playbook and we are not nannys
>> here.
>> I am not insulting you and not asking anything, in case you want to
>> answer.
>>
>> I have no intention and no time to answer anymore to your basic questions.
>>
>> Dusan
>>
>> Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona
>>
>>
>> ---- Ron Baione via UA-discuss je napisao/la ----
>>
>> First of all, Chris, I was responding to posts directed at me. If people
>> want me to be quiet, why do they keep re-bringing up already ended
>> discussions? So I can respond enough to be declared annoying and be banned.
>> Playbook 101. Same story as ccwg-accountability, antagonize, insult, blame,
>> fake astonishment, ban.
>>
>> Secondly, I am aware of the allowed topics, we have agreed to disagree on
>> if Tim Cook's claim applies to UA's long term work or not, I already moved
>> on from that multiple times, my question now is, what is the specific topic
>> being discussed right now? The hackathon?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> * From: * Chris LaHatte <chris.lahatte at icann.org>;
>> * To: * Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
>> * Subject: * RE: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's
>> comments today regarding Google Pay
>> * Sent: * Tue, Nov 17, 2015 3:25:03 AM
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>>
>> Can I ask you to try and stay on topic in this matter? It is apparent you
>> are starting to irritate the people in this list. If you make contributions
>> on the topic, they will be respected, but you appear unable to resist the
>> temptation to talk about other matters. If you are familiar with the
>> concept of Universal Acceptance and had participated in the earlier
>> discussions, you would have a better idea of the range of subjects.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris LaHatte
>>
>> Ombudsman
>>
>> Blog  https://omblog.icann.org/
>>
>> Webpage http://www.icann.org/en/help/ombudsman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Confidentiality
>>
>> All matters brought before the Ombudsman shall be treated as
>> confidential.  The Ombudsman shall also take all reasonable steps necessary
>> to preserve the privacy of, and to avoid harm to, those parties not
>> involved in the complaint being investigated by the Ombudsman.The Ombudsman
>> shall only make inquiries about, or advise staff or Board members of the
>> existence and identity of, a complainant in order to further the resolution
>> of the complaint.  The Ombudsman shall take all reasonable steps necessary
>> to ensure that if staff and Board members are made aware of the existence
>> and identity of a complainant, they agree to maintain the confidential
>> nature of such information, except as necessary to further the resolution
>> of a complaint
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org]
>> *On Behalf Of *Ron Baione via UA-discuss
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 17, 2015 4:02 PM
>> *To:* ua-discuss at icann.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's
>> comments today regarding Google Pay
>>
>>
>>
>> Dus,
>>
>> What is the current topic we should rather be discussing?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
>> *To: *Lars Steffen <lars.steffen at eco.de>; <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
>> *Subject: *[UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments
>> today regarding Google Pay
>> *Sent: *Mon, Nov 16, 2015 7:35:12 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Ron, Lars,
>>
>> Thank You both for contributing to the list, but this became off-topic.
>> My fault is also here, and I want to apologize and explain what I thought
>> it's obvious.
>>
>> This list is for discussion on UA issues and we're not discussing icann,
>> Western or eastern politics. Icann is not the topic here, and there are
>> other lists dedicated for changing and challenging icann multistake holder
>> model. Try IANA transition or icann accountability wg's.
>>
>> We all read this list. And whenever you disagree, you must listen to
>> others. F.E.   when discussing logo, there are bunch of them who literally
>> voted for this sign, and there is only you that have strong different
>> opinion. On the other hand, if You don't like the logo, it doesn't mean
>> that you didn't contribute. You added a flavor, bit of questioning inside
>> every head, whether it's good or bad choice. But, nobody has changed his
>> mind and the decision was made.
>>
>> If you continue to blame for this "lousy" decision icann, msh model,
>> invent playbook or continue to talk off topic then You simply - trolling.
>> It's not about who is right or wrong, it's a discussion. There can be as
>> many opinion as number of participants of the list, and if we don't listen
>> to others and make compromises, there will be no solution.
>>
>> You must get the sense why we are here and what's need to be done, and
>> that there is a lot of people who may think differently. That's why we all
>> need to listen eachothers, keep avoiding stereotypes, and try helping.
>>
>> And if You want to continue to prove that only your opinion is right and
>> everything else is wrong, then it's obvious how you get your playbook for
>> icann wg's. It's not about wg's, it's about you. You are listening only
>> yourself, and moderators are simply fulfilling your wishes.
>>
>> Along with my apologies, I want to tell you that by listening you learn.
>> By pushing only your opinion and not listening others - the list is not for
>> you, because what you're doing is not discussion.
>>
>> My apologies also for this off topic mail.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Dusan
>>
>> Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Ron Baione via UA-discuss je napisao/la ----
>>
>> Lars,
>>
>> I'm contributing when I can, reading and learning as well, but try to
>> disagree with the system or criticize it and see how those who demand
>> obedience to their heirarchy of employement status call you "a troll".
>> ICANN's system doesn't know any other way to respond to criticism than
>> using the playbook to get rid of the criticizer. Or they don't respond at
>> all, in the case of the symbol used on UA documents depicting a face
>> without a mouth and the words Universal Acceptance where the mouth would
>> be. I intellectually challenge you to criticize ICANN as a test to see if I
>> am correct.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *Lars Steffen <lars.steffen at eco.de>;
>> *To: *'Ron Baione' <ron.baione at yahoo.com>; Dusan Stojicevic <
>> dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
>> *Cc: *ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
>> *Subject: *AW: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today
>> regarding Google Pay
>> *Sent: *Mon, Nov 16, 2015 12:04:25 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> I don´t want to add any fuel to this but as a quite new member in the
>> ICANN community as well I can´t agree with the described “ICANN playbook”.
>> I still feel welcomed. And I do it like Dusan already described: Reading,
>> learning and contributing to the topic – when I can. Works out really fine.
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Lars
>>
>>
>>
>> *Von:* ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org]
>> *Im Auftrag von *Ron Baione via UA-discuss
>> *Gesendet:* Freitag, 13. November 2015 04:12
>> *An:* Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>
>> *Cc:* ua-discuss at icann.org
>> *Betreff:* Re: [UA-discuss] ODG: Re: ODG: Re: Tim Cook's comments today
>> regarding Google Pay
>>
>>
>>
>> Dus,
>>
>> I was more than half way through ICANN learn courses when Jeffrey Dunn
>> updated the courses to be incompatible with my IPad (IOS 6.0 and greater
>> compatibility). I asked him about what IOS ICANN learn would be compatible
>> with and he claimed he didn't know what the courses were compatible with
>> post-update, then, after deflecting the question until people got annoyed
>> with the conversation, he said he did know. They key to the delay was that
>> once people get annoyed, they tend to blame the new person rather than the
>> knowledgable veteran, as they purposefully forget how the annoying
>> conversation began.
>>
>> The ICANN playbook is the same in every group, it is a tried and true
>> method to get rid of new people who don't "stay quiet" and are accused of
>> being off the "topic", which is what is claimed as most important. The
>> truth is most people here have other high paying jobs and they don't want
>> to see emails from people they never heard of in their inbox as they try to
>> do those difficult tasks. And even though there is no current "topic",
>> (someone would have said what the current topic is by now) once someone
>> claims the new person must "stick to the topic", the remaining steps play
>> out as follows:
>>
>> 1) Accuse new person who doesn't stay quiet of spamming
>> 2) Ask who the heck this new person is, affiliation, and then say you
>> never heard of the person
>> 3) Call new person a troll
>> 4) After a few responses, back and forth, accuse the new person of
>> "disruption"
>> 5) Bring Disruptive matter to attention of group chair and ombudsman
>> 6) First warning issued to new person for disruption
>> 7) Second warning issued to new person for disruption
>> 8) 15 day ban for disruption
>>
>> Right now we are on step 4.
>>
>> But think about it, Tim Cook claimed the internet would Universally
>> Accept a cashless society, and an internet group called Universal
>> Acceptance can't find a degree of relevance in his claim to its mission and
>> charter, and he's the biggest Tech CEO on the planet. Pure irony to replace
>> that interesting discussion with a claim of disrupting a non-existent
>> topic, simply so that the people here with regular jobs don't have to
>> "waste precious time" reading the posts of a so-assumed "nobody".
>>
>> Multistakeholderism failure at its worst if you ask me. If ICANN can't
>> incorporate current new people who talk, then how can ICANN be trusted to
>> incorporate new people who talk after the transition? ICANN group members
>> want these groups closed off to the public in my opinion, but they can't do
>> that. Heck if I had a big time job at hoogle I wouldn't want to read this
>> post either, I wouldn't want to comment on Tim Cook. I understand. But
>> people shouldn't have signed up for a multistakeholder group if they can't
>> deal with the potential of a new person they never heard of who talks,
>> rather they should go work for a run of the mill corporation, which they
>> already do.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
>> *To: *Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
>> *Cc: *<ua-discuss at icann.org>;
>> *Subject: *ODG: Re: ODG: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today
>> regarding Google Pay
>> *Sent: *Fri, Nov 13, 2015 1:16:01 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Thanks, that reminds me... I wasn't so clever and active as You at the
>> beginning, I was quiet, doing reading and learning... and I was always
>> using my real name, so people always knew who I am. Also, I didn't put the
>> politics in my mails, like you did.
>>
>> Thanks, again for unreal reply, and if I may say so -
>> if you want to continue to troll, please go somewhere else.
>>
>> Dusan
>>
>> Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Ron Baione je napisao/la ----
>>
>> I was a grassroots newbie accepted just 3 months ago into ISOC NY, and I
>> am participating in IGF, ISOC, ARIN and ICANN mailing lists and trying to
>> learn as quickly as possible so that 4 or 5 years from now I can begin
>> traveling around the world to be a knowledgeable conference participant.
>> Since I only have the first version of the IPad, my ability to participate
>> in calls via my IPad is not compatible with adobe connect, unfortunately.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *Dusan Stojicevic <dusan at dukes.in.rs>;
>> *To: *Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>; Ram Mohan <
>> rmohan at afilias.info>; Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
>> *Cc: *<ua-discuss at icann.org>;
>> *Subject: *ODG: Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding
>> Google Pay
>> *Sent: *Fri, Nov 13, 2015 12:20:36 AM
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron,
>>
>> Somehow curious: I didn't catch your affiliation, community, country...
>> Maybe it's my fault, apologize for that if so, but I didn't saw you on any
>> call or meeting and I don't know you. If You be so kind to introduce
>> yourself better. Thank you in advance.
>>
>> Dusan
>>
>> Poslato sa mog Sony Xperia™ pametnog telefona
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---- Ron Baione via UA-discuss je napisao/la ----
>>
>> Fair enough, you and Ram don't believe that the involved process of
>> uncirculating all physical money, as well as the memory of that physical
>> money having ever existed in the first place, within the time-frame of one
>> generation of people, is relevant to domain names in any way.
>>
>> Moving on then, the previous topic was whether or not there should be a
>> hackathon at ICANN55, and as that seems to have been resolved, what is the
>> current topic? Is it reverting back to the topic before that, whether or
>> not google translator shows the link when adding a link to it?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *Mark Svancarek <marksv at microsoft.com>;
>> *To: *Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>; Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
>>
>> *Cc: *ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
>> *Subject: *RE: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google
>> Pay
>> *Sent: *Thu, Nov 12, 2015 9:54:51 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> Ron, we’re about domain names and email addresses, nothing else.
>> Anything not related to those topics, such as this thread, are random
>> distractions.  Please stay on topic.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org]
>> *On Behalf Of *Ram Mohan
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2015 6:10 PM
>> *To:* Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>
>> *Cc:* ua-discuss at icann.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google
>> Pay
>>
>>
>>
>> This is close to spamming the list.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ron Baione [mailto:ron.baione at yahoo.com]
>> *Sent:* Thursday, November 12, 2015 3:39 PM
>> *To:* Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>
>> *Cc:* ua-discuss at icann.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google
>> Pay
>>
>>
>>
>> NASA has stated many times that a solar storm could temporarily knock out
>> out the power grid, and without physical money at that hypothetical
>> juncture, people will have to barter. Other possibilities exist now and in
>> the future which make it realistic to expect the safe guard of physical
>> money to stick around at least a few more generations incase of a failed
>> grid event, unless Tim Cook knows thhe future and he knows there will never
>> be a Solar Storm ever again, it just boggles the mind how someone so
>> connected to thoughtful people, especially in the cyber-security industry,
>> could completely discount and disregard Solar activity, where taking money
>> out of circulation would cause a 100% reliance on technology for payments.
>> It would take a while, too long, to reprint and recirculate physical money
>> if that became necessary.
>>
>> In regards to this topic being relevant to Universal Acceptance's
>> charter, it is because Tim Cook is an influential person in the tech
>> industry and added confusion about the future of the internet, stating
>> there will be a mandatory degree of restricted learning and restricted
>> knowledge conveyance to the next generation via a process only he seems to
>> know about. The language and code additions UA is making in regards to
>> language and other internet necessities should not be deterred, affected by
>> or confused in that described dystopian future by such an unclarified,
>> alternate vision of the future internet.
>>
>> How can any ICANN working group perform its function to the best of ts
>> abilities, building a better and inclusive internet, when arguably the top
>> Tech CEO in the world alludes to being privy to a future reality ICANN
>> isn't privy to? And if Apple asserts that the next generation will not know
>> what money is, and ICANN and Apple are in the same exact industry, then
>> ICANN has a responsibility in my opinion to at least ask someone at Apple
>> how such an implausible reality will be made possible.
>>
>> Non-germane topics would more likely include gardening, sports and/or
>> fashion advice. One possibility I thought of as to why such a vague
>> statement was put out there by Tim, is that since everything about the tech
>> industry's daily grind must be exact and precise, once it is time to speak
>> people subconciously go to the opposite mindset extreme, talking vaguely in
>> an effort to even out their robotic and exhaustive efforts with what feels
>> like an excercise in philosophy. As a solution to the recurrence of such
>> subconsious rebalancing of the precision-based mindset with philosophical
>> vague assertions, language graduates should be hired by the tech industry
>> to advise industry leaders on how to limit overall global confusion via
>> their spoken words, symbols and slogans, to speed up progress.
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *Ram Mohan <rmohan at afilias.info>;
>> *To: *Ron Baione <ron.baione at yahoo.com>;
>> *Cc: *<ua-discuss at icann.org>;
>> *Subject: *Re: [UA-discuss] Tim Cook's comments today regarding Google
>> Pay
>> *Sent: *Thu, Nov 12, 2015 1:50:46 PM
>>
>>
>>
>> This is not germane to the universal acceptance topic or charter.
>>
>> Ram
>>
>> On Nov 11, 2015 9:51 PM, "Ron Baione via UA-discuss" <
>> ua-discuss at icann.org> wrote:
>>
>> This email is to request comment from Brent and any Apple representatives
>> regarding Google Pay being recently invoked by Apple CEO Timothy Cook as
>> one of two major "buying and selling" systems within an inevitable cashless
>> society, the other being Apple's pay system:
>>
>> Timothy stated, "The next generation will not know what money is.". All
>> members of UA and ICANN should be brought up to speed on Timothy's
>> assertion that learning restrictions will be being applied to ICANN and the
>> internet, so that the rest of us can know exactly how such a feat of
>> history deletion and restrictions on the learning and conveyance of
>> historical knowledge would be logically accomplished in such a short period
>> of time. For example:
>>
>> 1) Would older generations not be allowed to describe physical money to
>> younger generations?
>>
>> 2) What date will those conveyance and learning restrictions begin?
>>
>> 3) Will UA and ICANN be forced to participate in the deletion of all
>> photographs, records and mentions of physical money from the internet?
>>
>> 4) Will libraries be forced to discard books that mention or depict
>> physical money?
>>
>> 5) Will ccwg-accountability have to add language to their proposal for
>> the NTIA to resteict future ICANN members from using their connections to
>> Apple and Google against other ICANN members they disagree with on a
>> certain issues as a future intimidation tactic?
>>
>> 6) Is Timothy Cook asserting personal, intellectual control over the next
>> generation of people by claiming to know, without any doubt, what they will
>> and will not know or be able to learn about at an unspecified time of his
>> choosing?
>>
>> It is one thing to claim that the next generation will not use physical
>> money, but to make such an assertion on what human beings will be aware of
>> and learn about in terms of what they can and cannot learn, as Timothy
>> made, seems to be a stretch of the imagination. Unless of course, Brent and
>> any Apple representatives can fill the rest of us in, respectfully, on the
>> vague process alluded to by Timothy Cook today. If the CEO of a major
>> corporation can assert what humans can possibly learn about in the future,
>> should not such an assertion be at least considered by ICANN's and UA's
>> mission of a free and open internet for all?
>>
>> Ron
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *Rubens Kuhl <rubens at registro.br>;
>> *To: *Don Hollander <don.hollander at icann.org>;
>> *Cc: *ua-discuss at icann.org <ua-discuss at icann.org>;
>> *Subject: *Re: [UA-discuss] Hackathon @ ICANN55
>> *Sent: *Thu, Nov 12, 2015 12:18:09 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:20 PM, Don Hollander <don.hollander at icann.org>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Here’s my take on the Hackathon idea @ ICANN55:
>> >
>> > 1) ICANN is a technology conference and there would be few technology
>> conferences of its size held in the region.
>> > 2) I note that ICANN is generally around policies, but there are still
>> a lot of geeks there
>>
>> ccTLD activities at ICANN are usually of a more technical tone, and
>> ccTLDs are the most used domains in the AF region, not gTLDs. Involving the
>> local IDN ccTLDs might be key to attract more geeks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rubens
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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