[UA-discuss] UA-discuss Digest, Vol 20, Issue 2
Harish Chowdhary
harish at nixi.in
Thu Aug 4 16:23:47 UTC 2016
Hi,This is my first post in the list and i am not sure ,the questions i am going to ask ,are relevant to ongoing discussion.Kindly help me to find out the answer or kindly direct me to right location if i am not asking at correct platform.1. I would like to know number of users having internationalized email IDs across the world.2. Is there any report or survey by ICANN or any other organization on the demand of Internationalized e-mail ID's.3. Do we have any case study of successful deployment of internationalized e-mail.Harish ChowdharyNational Internet Exchange of India (NIXI)From: ua-discuss-request at icann.orgSent: Thu, 04 Aug 2016 17:30:22To: ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: UA-discuss Digest, Vol 20, Issue 2Send UA-discuss mailing list submissions to ua-discuss at icann.orgTo subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ua-discussor, via email, send a message with subject or body 'h!
elp' to ua-discuss-request at icann.orgYou can reach the person managing the list at ua-discuss-owner at icann.orgWhen replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specificthan "Re: Contents of UA-discuss digest..."Today's Topics: 1. Re: Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience? (Naomi Pearce) 2. Re: Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience? (Andrew Sullivan) 3. Re: Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience? (Naomi Pearce) 4. Re: Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience? (Mark Svancarek) 5. Notes from UA Coordination Group Call (Don Hollander) 6. Re: Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience? (Dusan Stojic!
evic) 7. Re: Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII  
; to a non-technical audience? (Andrew Sullivan) 8. Re: Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience? (Dusan Stojicevic)----------------------------------------------------------------------Message: 1Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 11:44:07 -0700From: Naomi Pearce <naomi at well.com>To: UA-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Message-ID: <r470Ps-1095i-650F63827FE14E858BEE71247142E11D at 75-101-50-192.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowedI keep tripping up on referring to language being "non-" something.Here's why. If I ask you to think of an elephant that isn'tblue, what's the first thing you think of? Often, it's !
a blueelephant first, then one works to get to non-blue.In sports, coaches deal with this all the time. For example, ifa coach tells a baseball pitcher to avoid pitching low andinside, sure enough, the tendency will be low, or inside.Therefore, the coach is the one who has to do the translation ofwhat it is they actually want, rather than what they don't want-- in the example, to pitch to the outside, or to pitch higher.[Feel free to adjust the example to any sport, or coachedactivity, that you like.]In our case, I ask myself if it would be better to focus on whatthe language is, rather than isn't. That's where it gets challenging.A half-step would be talking about languages 'beyond' English.It still has a fair amount of the blue-elephant problem.I think 'domains in world languages' is heading in the rightdirection, though it's a tad dense in that I have no idea what a'world language' is unless I mentally work really hard. Ergo,some b!
rainstormed notions below... take what you need and leavethe rest.On 7
/22/16 at 12:41 PM, jothan at jothan.com (Jothan Frakes) wrote:>Not sure if 'domains in world languages'In case any of these suggestions or ideas resonate, how about:'domains in all languages''domains in all written languages''domains in every language''domains in any major language''domains in any language used in the world''domains in most major languages''domains in many kinds of languages''domains in various languages used in the world''domains in the native languages used in the world''domains in native languages''domains in local languages'Just thoughts...--TTFN, tah tah for now,Naomi PearcePearce Communications510/528-0824*********************************************************** "Any fool can farm flatland!" -- Walter Ca!
mp***********************************************************------------------------------Message: 2Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 15:07:14 -0400From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>To: ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Message-ID: <20160803190714.GM18305 at mx2.yitter.info>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiOn Wed, Aug 03, 2016 at 11:44:07AM -0700, Naomi Pearce wrote:> I keep tripping up on referring to language being "non-" something.And again, I'll point out that language is the wrong word, no matter_what_ you pick.I'm not being merely bloody-minded here. Here, for instance, are thenames in the NS set for one of my mail domains:crankycanuck.ca. 86400 IN NS ns3159.dns.dyn.com.crankycanuck.ca. 86400 IN NS !
ns4152.dns.dyn.com.crankycanuck.ca. 86400
IN NS ns1138.dns.dyn.com.crankycanuck.ca. 86400 IN NS ns2176.dns.dyn.com.Maybe if you squint, "crankycanuck" is a compound word in English."DNS" might be a word, but it's not merely in English: it's the nameof the service, and so it's a word in every language. Dyn is the nameof my employer, so there again it's not in English. (Indeed, it's notin English anyway. It's pronounced "dine" as in "Dynamic NetworkServices", but any English pronunciation rule says it should bepronounced "din". In China, I find, it's pronounced "dee-wye-en",with very little pause where the hyphens are.) It's quite clear thatca, com, and nsNNNN are not words in English."The writing systems of the whole world" is accurate. "Your local wayof writing&qu!
ot; is accurate. "The writing systems of many differentlanguages" is correct. "Your language" is not, ever, period.A--Andrew Sullivanajs at anvilwalrusden.com------------------------------Message: 3Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 12:26:24 -0700From: Naomi Pearce <naomi at well.com>To: ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Message-ID: <r470Ps-1095i-EAE56438A4C24C09BB6524F885603E1C at 75-101-50-192.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8Nice! Good stuff.On 8/3/16 at 12:07 PM, ajs at anvilwalrusden.com (Andrew Sullivan) wrote:> "Your local way> of writing" is accurate. > "The writing systems of many different> languages" is correct.------------------------------Message: 4Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 20:57:39 +0000From: Mark Svancarek <m!
arksv at microsoft.com>To: Naomi Pearce <naomi at well.com>, "
ua-discuss at icann.org" <ua-discuss at icann.org>Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Message-ID: <CO2PR03MB2135078B7A94C64A78CE335AD1060 at CO2PR03MB2135.namprd03.prod.outlook.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8""Your local way of writing" is terrific. It's accurate and concise and conveys the emotional impact that people should get when they realize the benefit they will receive.-----Original Message-----From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Naomi PearceSent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 12:26 PMTo: ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Nice! Good stuff.On 8/3/16 at 12:07 PM, ajs at anvilwalrusden.com (Andrew Sullivan) wrote:> "Your local way> of writ!
ing" is accurate. > "The writing systems of many different languages" is correct.------------------------------Message: 5Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 02:02:52 +0000From: Don Hollander <don.hollander at icann.org>To: "ua-coordination at icann.org" <ua-coordination at icann.org>Cc: "UA-discuss at icann.org" <UA-discuss at icann.org>Subject: [UA-discuss] Notes from UA Coordination Group CallMessage-ID: <638CC3AB-CE8F-4F0A-A8BD-09485ECAD787 at icann.org>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Attached are the notes from today?s UASG Coordination Group call.Please review and advise for accuracy and completeness.Thanks.Don-------------- next part --------------A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: Notes - UA Coordination - August 2016.pdfType: application/pdfSize: 94521 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ua-discuss/attachments/20160804/f35e81ea/Notes-UACoordination-August2016-0001.pdf>------!
-------- next part ---------------------------- next part ------------
--A non-text attachment was scrubbed...Name: smime.p7sType: application/pkcs7-signatureSize: 3869 bytesDesc: not availableURL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ua-discuss/attachments/20160804/f35e81ea/smime-0001.p7s>------------------------------Message: 6Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 04:55:53 +0200From: "Dusan Stojicevic" <dusan at dukes.in.rs>To: "'Mark Svancarek'" <marksv at microsoft.com>, "'Naomi Pearce'" <naomi at well.com>, "'ua-discuss'" <UA-discuss at icann.org>Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Message-ID: <020201d1edfb$b7df3d50$279db7f0$@dukes.in.rs>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"Dear all,Few thoughts>"Your local way of writing", without referring to specific script, can be understood like cursiv!
e.Also, what is local way of writing for China - vertical (which is traditional one)? Simplified script or ...?Or - "Oh, I don't need to write those dots in domain name, I can use without them and put the dot at the end of the sentence" :).There is a lot of meanings for "Your local way of writing", so "accurate" is under a question.Secondly, "Your local way of writing", without referring to specific script, put "emotional impact" in a position where it depends on the person who say that and who is in the audience.Do You mean Cyrillic, or Thai, or some other script, or all... Can be confusing.Person - if it's a native English speaker, probably ok. If it's me or other non-native English speaker - does it means that Cyrillic is excluded, or it's about just a domestic, local script.And, you have better knowledge about PR for sure, but - "Your" without referring to specific script CAN be offensive someti!
me - depends on the audience and "the moment".If it's wr
itten - it creates another confusing dimension. Let say, do we have Rusyn Cyrillic? Are we sure about ALL scripts for all possible readers of that doc?Or simply: "Oh, Serbia (or name it) is a small country, probably there is no Serbian script there".And finally, in broader sense - "Your local way of writing" is a set of all scripts, including ASCII which we want to exclude on the first place.We need a simple term, few words, that can be understood properly by all, which doesn't mean that we need to be technically precise...My two cents...Dusan-----Original Message-----From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Mark Svancarek via UA-discussSent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 10:58 PMTo: Naomi Pearce <naomi at well.com>; ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?"Your local way of writing" is terrific. It's accurate and !
concise and conveys the emotional impact that people should get when they realize the benefit they will receive.-----Original Message-----From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Naomi PearceSent: Wednesday, August 3, 2016 12:26 PMTo: ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Nice! Good stuff.On 8/3/16 at 12:07 PM, ajs at anvilwalrusden.com (Andrew Sullivan) wrote:> "Your local way> of writing" is accurate. > "The writing systems of many different languages" is correct.------------------------------Message: 7Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 23:05:16 -0400From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs at anvilwalrusden.com>To: ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Message-ID: <20160804030516.GR18305 at mx2.yitter.info>Co!
ntent-Type: text/plain; charset=us-asciiOn Thu, Aug 04, 2016 at 04:55:
53AM +0200, Dusan Stojicevic wrote:> And finally, in broader sense - "Your local way of writing" is a set of all scripts, including ASCII which we want to exclude on the first place.>I don't know what it would mean to try to exclude ASCII from the DNS.In a registry, I suppose you could accept only U-labels forregistration. That wouldn't constrain subordinate names anyway.> We need a simple term, few words, that can be understood properly by all, which doesn't mean that we need to be technically precise...>Well, it needs not to be actually wrong, too. Domain names aren't ina language, and the repetition of the trope that this or that domainname is "in" some language is doing a lot of harm. It leads people tobelieve in variant systems, tests of meaningfulness of domain names,and other fairy stories that create lots of opportunities for demandsthat cannot be satisfied. If the goal of this project is univers!
alacceptance, then we'd best not create conditions where we make it evenmore likely people will reject these domain names.A--Andrew Sullivanajs at anvilwalrusden.com------------------------------Message: 8Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2016 06:20:03 +0200From: "Dusan Stojicevic" <dusan at dukes.in.rs>To: <ua-discuss at icann.org>Subject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to a non-technical audience?Message-ID: <023c01d1ee07$79ee7ef0$6dcb7cd0$@dukes.in.rs>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"I apologize for the first thing, probably I was not precise. We don't knowwho is reading (or is in the audience), and if we assume that all people canread this doc (or hear this term), then we include "everybody" - meaningalso those who use ASCII in "local way of writing". And we are trying tofind something to represent "non-A!
SCII".For the second one, I agree to the point that it needs not
to be actuallywrong. For the rest, I still think that most convenient is non-English, butonly for this target audience. I don't want to go further into discussionwhy nba.com for those people is "in" English language, or why 123456 is anumber for them (and that's how they remember and read this) but it'sactually PIN which is numeric password or it can be vehicle registrationplate with different meaning for each digit (without numeric value as awhole number)... Let say, we agree that we disagree on this one :)Cheers,Dusan-----Original Message-----From: ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ua-discuss-bounces at icann.org] OnBehalf Of Andrew SullivanSent: Thursday, August 4, 2016 5:05 AMTo: ua-discuss at icann.orgSubject: Re: [UA-discuss] Language - how do you refer to non-ASCII to anon-technical audience?On Thu, Aug 04, 2016 at 04:55:53AM +0200, Dusan Stojicevic wrote:> And finally, in broader sense - "Your local way of writing" is a set ofall scrip!
ts, including ASCII which we want to exclude on the first place.>I don't know what it would mean to try to exclude ASCII from the DNS.In a registry, I suppose you could accept only U-labels for registration.That wouldn't constrain subordinate names anyway.> We need a simple term, few words, that can be understood properly by all,which doesn't mean that we need to be technically precise...>Well, it needs not to be actually wrong, too. Domain names aren't in alanguage, and the repetition of the trope that this or that domain name is"in" some language is doing a lot of harm. It leads people to believe invariant systems, tests of meaningfulness of domain names, and other fairystories that create lots of opportunities for demands that cannot besatisfied. If the goal of this project is universal acceptance, then we'dbest not create conditions where we make it even more likely people willreject these domain names.A--Andrew S!
ullivanajs at anvilwalrusden.com------------------------------___________
____________________________________UA-discuss mailing listUA-discuss at icann.orghttps://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ua-discussEnd of UA-discuss Digest, Vol 20, Issue 2*****************************************
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[NIXI is on Social-Media too. Kindly follow us at:
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nixiindia & Twitter: @inregistry ]
This e-mail is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may
contain confidential and privileged information. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply e-mail and destroy
all copies and the original message. Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure, dissemination, forwarding, printing or copying of this email
is strictly prohibited and appropriate legal action will be taken.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ua-discuss/attachments/20160804/8001e793/attachment.html>
More information about the UA-discuss
mailing list