[UA-discuss] Ideas for engagement with stakeholders in Germany
Asmus Freytag (c)
asmusf at ix.netcom.com
Sun Nov 24 22:53:41 UTC 2019
On 11/24/2019 1:27 PM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
> Hi Asmus
> Just to make sure that I am not misunderstood, my intention was not to
> raise issues for UASG, but to ask some questions for my own education.
> I understand that I can find more information in the work of the Latin
> Generation Panel - can you please point me to the place where I can
> connect with that?
that's a useful clarification. If you are interested in the work of the
Generation Panels, it's part of the Root Zone LGR project which is
maintained on the ICANN website as part of the IDN project.
The place to start is https://icann.org/idn
And then look around for the root zone LGR project, generation panels etc.
As I mentioned, the current status is a work in progress (it was
discussed at the ICANN66 meeting); the first public draft is expected
next year. In the meantime, anyone is, of course free to contact the
generation panel or to offer to contribute.
>> On 24.11.2019, at 21:52, Asmus Freytag <asmusf at ix.netcom.com
>> <mailto:asmusf at ix.netcom.com>> wrote:
>> What is the context of this discussion of Latin characters?
>> Is it to discuss recommended practice or to describe actual practice?
>> Actual practice is not easy to determine, because even where
>> Idntables were filed by registries (in the IANA repository), they
>> don't often provide the complete story. (Other policies apply as
>> well). Nevertheless, at least some registries apply minimal restrictions.
>> For the Root Zone, the Latin Generation Panel is working on a
>> proposed set of Label Generation Rules. It's key features are:
>> (1) precomposed letters are limited to those in use in everyday
>> modern orthographies
>> (2) combining marks are limited to the actual combinations used in
>> the same orthographies
>> (3) because NFC, there's no duplication between (1) and (2).
>> (4) the sharp s is allowed, but made a variant of "ss".
>> Due to the fact that Swiss, when writing German will only use "ss";
>> the variant is allocatable if "ß" is registered, allowing one
>> entity to control
>> both variants. That takes care of issues around fall-back use.
>> (5) i with and without dot may be defined as variants
>> (6) many cross-script variants are defined to safely allow
>> Greek, Cyrillic and Armenian labels to coexist with Latin ones
>> in the Root.
>> (7) the Catalan middle dot is not allowed.
>> (8) Ducth ij and any other cases of single code points for digraph
>> letters are not allowed.
>> Something like that approach could serve as a basis for "best
>> practice" prescriptions for other zones, if that's something that is
>> relevant in the UA context.
>> However, the UASG would not seem the appropriate venue to duplicate
>> the full analysis of the Latin script undertaken by the Latin
>> Generation Panel. That panel spent several years on this project and
>> analyzed over 200 orthographies.
>> PS: a public version of the proposed Latin Root Zone LGR is expected
>> early next year for those of you who would like to review that
>> document and its conclusions.
>> On 11/24/2019 10:19 AM, Roberto Gaetano wrote:
>>> Dear Mark,
>>> This brings another topic to my mind.
>>> Just for curiosity, do you know what is the situation in the code
>>> tables for the characters that in some languages that use the
>>> “latin” script are the combination of two separate characters - a
>>> bit like the "scharfes S” that you talk about?
>>> I am thinking, for instance, about the “rr” or “ll” (that in spanish
>>> are different from two consecutive “l” or “r”), or the “ij” (that in
>>> dutch is not an “i” followed by a “j”, although it is written that way).
>>>> On 24.11.2019, at 04:22, Mark W. Datysgeld
>>>> <mark at governanceprimer.com <mailto:mark at governanceprimer.com>> wrote:
>>>> Hello everyone,
>>>> I exchanged a few messages with Lars earlier this year, and would
>>>> like to present below some points he raised that should be useful
>>>> both for the IGF next week and looking towards ICANN meeting C next
>>>> year, being tailored towards German stakeholders. In my view, we
>>>> can aim to always try gathering such regional insights moving
>>>> forward to optimize our engagement.
>>>> *Special characters:* Eszett (ß) and Umlaut (ü) have fallback
>>>> options by default:
>>>> * Eszett becomes "ss".
>>>> * Capital Eszett (ẞ) has only recently been introduced officially
>>>> to the language, meaning that anything in capital letters used
>>>> to be written using "SS" even on the press.
>>>> * Umlaut characters (ä, ö, ü) become "ae", "oe", "ue".
>>>> * Fallback: the popular cityTLD for "Köln" is run under ".koeln"
>>>> and ".cologne" to avoid the Umlaut.
>>>> * ".berlin" is a popular gTLD and is in active use for varied
>>>> purposes, including local businesses.
>>>> * Other relevant gTLDs: ".hamburg", ".bayern", ".ruhr", ".nrw"
>>>> and ".saarland".
>>>> Hopefully this can help us engage better. Safe journeys to all of
>>>> those traveling to the IGF!
>>>> Mark W. Datysgeld from Governance Primer [www.markwd.website]
>>>> In partnership with AR-TARC and the Brazilian Association of Software Companies (ABES)
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