<div dir="ltr">Sure - and the short version of my initial comment had suggested we perhaps as part of our discussion we have a prepared message around 'while you are under the hood to add smileys, why not enable access to a massive group of new customers'</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><br>Jothan Frakes<br>Tel: +1.206-355-0230<br><br></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 8:08 AM, Mark Svancarek <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:marksv@microsoft.com" target="_blank">marksv@microsoft.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal">The topic is in scope for discussion at the UASG meeting. We should have a point of view and share it. We should have a point of view on the work John and Asmus are doing, too.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Andrew’s points about emojis at this time.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class=""><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ua-discuss-bounces@<wbr>icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jothan Frakes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 1, 2017 1:06 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Andrew Sullivan <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org" target="_blank">ua-discuss@icann.org</a><br>
</span><b>Subject:</b> Re: [UA-discuss] 69 New Emoji Have Been Approved By Unicode - Just in case you thought this Emoji stuff was a flash in the pan
<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">🍳💥</span><u></u><u></u></p><div><div class="h5">
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<p class="MsoNormal">I started to reply in thread but I think it is better to say that i am aware of and we are in violent agreement about emoji issues with IDNA.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Mar 31, 2017 12:29, "Andrew Sullivan" <<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 12:00:53PM -0700, Jothan Frakes wrote:<br>
> I see this on the agenda for the Redmond/Seattle group meetings - are we<br>
> deciding if this is in scope or not?<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In scope for what? Emoji are just not allowed in the server-part<br>
unless you're suggesting that this group ought to be promoting names<br>
that are contrary to every IETF specification on the matter and are<br>
contrary to the ICANN IDN guidelines. If this group is in fact going<br>
to recommend sugh things, I predict that the future of acceptance is<br>
going to be even further from universal than you'd like.<br>
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Perhaps you're talking about recommendations for use of emoji in<br>
local-parts, since email addresses are identifiers. Given the<br>
discussion in <a href="http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr36/" target="_blank">http://www.unicode.org/<wbr>reports/tr36/</a> about visual<br>
spoofing, I hope the recommendation is just that emoji are interesting<br>
but poorly suited for identifiers. Since people can put literally<br>
anything they want in the local-part, they're going to do what they<br>
want anyway.<u></u><u></u></p>
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> efforts towards solutions in UA, and on the plus side, Emoji support seems<br>
> to get attention from the developers at the moment.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Of course it does. Emoji are fun and cool. The problem is that<br>
they'll create an enormous security problem if people try to use them<br>
for real in identifiers, at least today.<u></u><u></u></p>
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> Emoji domains on the left side of the dot do work in a small subset of the<br>
> existing TLDs<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">In some browsers. And what is this "the left side of the dot" of<br>
which you speak? DNS names are hierarchical. There are lots of<br>
possible dots.<br>
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> - Addition of Emoji support as a primary project with an opportunity to<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">> introduce UA readiness - Developer 'in the code' for Emoji support can be<br>
> more efficient for the team and address the matters that give access to the<br>
> next billion customers.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am having a very hard time understanding what "in the code for emoji<br>
support" means, so I'd like to narrow that down.<u></u><u></u></p>
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> What I mean about Emoji is that they are often used as short form and are<br>
> composed using characters like :) (colon closeparen) that would be<br>
> typically illegal in a DOMAIN, URI, URL, SMTP or other protocol - so it may<br>
> open a new set of challenges beyond the already daunting set we're hoping<br>
> to chip away at in the existing quixotic list.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The string ":)" is perfectly legal in the DNS but not legal in IDNA or<br>
under the LDH rules. It's extremely hard to use, however. The same<br>
is true in local-parts of email.<u></u><u></u></p>
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> messenger applications. Try :) in skype, facebook other messenger and in<br>
> most cases it converts to the emoji smiley face.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Sometimes this is for display and sometimes this is on the wire.<br>
Figuring out which would be important. I can think of recommendations<br>
that would be useful to developers here, but they might be more<br>
properly developed as technical recommendations.<br>
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> - There would have an issue with the interplay of IDNA and the<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">> 'automagic' emoji handling / conversion apps perform.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Like that emoji and all punctuation are both not allowed under IDNA.<br>
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Best regards,<br>
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A<br>
<span style="color:#888888"><br>
--<br>
Andrew Sullivan<br>
<a href="mailto:ajs@anvilwalrusden.com" target="_blank">ajs@anvilwalrusden.com</a></span><u></u><u></u></p>
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