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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/21/2017 2:45 PM, Dusan Stojicevic
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:02af01d2bae8$8bdf1e40$a39d5ac0$@dukes.in.rs"
type="cite">
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi
Asmus,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">If
I understood correctly, it’s a good approach, but it’s
definitely not the one for average user.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
The average user will rely on the browser putting some kind of "OK"
sign next to the URL.<br>
<br>
That's why I wrote that the lock symbol for https should be of some
other color than green to alert the user that something might not be
right when a site has a certificate but no information on ownership
of that certificate.<br>
<br>
Also, unsecured connections should be flagged positively as such,
not passively by the absence of some symbol.<br>
<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:02af01d2bae8$8bdf1e40$a39d5ac0$@dukes.in.rs"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">First
of all, average user have a problem to see the difference
between http and https. Average owner of domain name usually
don’t know what SSL is.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
For this approach, you don't need to know what the browser bases its
feedback on, only that it is consistent, can be relied upon and if
you don't click unless the site shows the proper check mark (and the
name, in clear text of the correct organization, e.g. Apple (US)).<br>
<br>
Those things users can understand.<br>
<br>
A./<br>
<blockquote cite="mid:02af01d2bae8$8bdf1e40$a39d5ac0$@dukes.in.rs"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">I
agree with you that this suggestion is better than make IDNs
second-class URLs, but in my opinion, it’s not for average
user.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And
in this case, you just assume that “fake websites” must have
certificate? <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">And
yes, I admit, I don’t know how to solve this… <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dusan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org">ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Asmus
Freytag<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 21, 2017 7:05 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org">ua-discuss@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [UA-discuss] Re : And now about
phishing...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 4/21/2017 2:50 AM, Dusan Stojicevic
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">More
on Mozilla></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.mozilla.org/IDN_Display_Algorithm">https://wiki.mozilla.org/IDN_Display_Algorithm</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">FWIW,
I think that this is a problem on which UASG must react
somehow.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">@Asmus:
this phishing issue is not new. We were speaking about it
2 years ago. And yes, it’s starting to create a big
problem.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
All,<br>
<br>
confusables spoofing is *not* limited to cross-script
homoglyphs, although the Latin/Cyrillic case is particularly
egregious.<br>
<br>
This kind of defense shown below works even for non-homoglyph
attacks, such as "gooogle" or similar typos that may be hard
to spot with perfect reliability. More can be done in that
direction, without making IDNs second-class URLs.<br>
<br>
For the cross script case, the registries could do a lot more,
and we are definitely going to do more in the root.<br>
<br>
On my system I get this, when I connect to "apple.com":<br>
<br>
<img id="_x0000_i1025"
src="cid:part2.3B587C4C.BB323F42@ix.netcom.com" height="59"
border="0" width="326"><br>
<br>
and this, for the "fake" (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.%D0%B0%D1%80%D1%80%D3%8F%D0%B5.com/">https://www.аррӏе.com/</a>)<br>
<br>
<img id="_x0000_i1026"
src="cid:part4.DE4DB1CF.600829BF@ix.netcom.com" height="49"
border="0" width="239"><br>
<br>
Arguably, the lock should change color if there's no owner
information<br>
present, to give a better warning than just the absence of an
identification.<br>
<br>
<img id="_x0000_i1027"
src="cid:part5.7427EC4D.5FB61B63@ix.netcom.com" height="421"
border="0" width="395"><br>
<br>
<img id="_x0000_i1028"
src="cid:part6.2BC70AAA.B375DD2D@ix.netcom.com" height="421"
border="0" width="395"><br>
<br>
A./<br>
<br>
@Dusan: I know that this phishing issue is not new, I've known
about that one for way longer than just two years (and for
longer than I've been active in the IDN area).<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Cheers,<br>
Dusan</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org">ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Vittorio Bertola<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 21, 2017 11:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org">ua-discuss@icann.org</a>;
Asmus Freytag <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:asmusf@ix.netcom.com"><asmusf@ix.netcom.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [UA-discuss] Re : And now about
phishing...</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p> <o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Il 21
aprile 2017 alle 0.52 Asmus Freytag <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:asmusf@ix.netcom.com">asmusf@ix.netcom.com</a>>
ha scritto:<br>
<br>
If you think about it, the following recommendation at the
end is anathema to "Universal acceptance":<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">"Zheng
is encouraging Firefox users to limit their exposure to
the bug by going to the browser’s <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="about:config">about:config</a>
settings and setting network.IDN_show_punycode to true.
By doing this Firefox will always display IDN domains in
its Punycode form, something that should make it easier
to identify malicious domains, the researcher claims."<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you do that, you implicitly assume
that only the "non-IDN" links are "real", in other words,
you assume an English-only environment. (When stuff is
displayed as punicode, you usually can't tell what domain
it is, except you can guess for some European ones with
very few special characters, but you can't be sure unless
the Unicode form is at least also displayed, which I think
is not what that config change means).<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hello,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>excuse me if I jump into a discussion having just joined
the list, but this issue is really troubling me for at least
two reasons.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>First, many news sources are now filling up with calls and
guides for disabling IDNs in browsers altogether, which is a
death call for universal acceptance. It all started with
this horrible post by Wordfence's CEO, basically equating
IDNs to an instrument conceived for phishing:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2017/04/chrome-firefox-unicode-phishing/">https://www.wordfence.com/blog/2017/04/chrome-firefox-unicode-phishing/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>It would be really good if anyone knew him and could have a
chat with him, maybe even convince him to help spreading a
better view of the issue.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Secondly, browser makers are now reacting in opposite ways:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>1) Microsoft's browser (AFAIK) will enable or disable the
display of Unicode in the URL bar depending on the operating
system's language;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>2) Google's browser, with a newly released patch, will not
display Unicode IDNs in ASCII TLDs if the IDNs are
whole-script confusables ( <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://codereview.chromium.org/2683793010">https://codereview.chromium.org/2683793010</a>
);<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>3) Mozilla's browser will explicitly always display Unicode
IDNs regardless of whether this may be used for phishing ( <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://wiki.mozilla.org/IDN_Display_Algorithm_FAQ">https://wiki.mozilla.org/IDN_Display_Algorithm_FAQ
</a>and <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1332714">https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1332714</a>
). However, multiple online sources are now advising people
to use a Firefox configuration option that allows to disable
the display of IDNs altogether.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(Don't know about Apple, Opera and others.)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>As you see, this is going to hamper the usability of IDNs
in URLs and, even worse, make it entirely unpredictable,
depending on the user's browser choice.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>The only real solution to this is that all registries treat
whole script confusables as variants, so that they cannot be
registered to anyone different than the owner of the
equivalent ASCII domain. Unicode TR-39 allows to do this
programmatically. However, I just checked the proposed draft
IDN guidelines that are currently undergoing public
consultation at ICANN:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-idn-guidelines-03mar17-en.pdf">https://www.icann.org/en/system/files/files/draft-idn-guidelines-03mar17-en.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p>At point 16, they say that the registry "may" do this, but
that should really be a "must". If this does not happen,
there will be more of these situations and the risk that all
the Western world will then disable IDNs in URLs for good is
quite significant. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>I think that this group could do several useful things:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>a) promote a better public understanding of the issue,
countering the trend that "IDN URLs are for phishing";<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>b) encourage browser makers to elaborate a common approach;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>c) push for ICANN and the registries to free the Internet
from whole-script confusables.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">-- <br>
<br>
<strong>Vittorio Bertola</strong><br>
Research & Innovation Engineer <o:p></o:p></p>
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style="font-size:8.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:#CCCCCC">Confidentiality
Warning: This message and any attachments are
intended only for the use of the intended
recipient(s), are confidential, and may be
privileged. If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any
review, retransmission, conversion to hard copy,
copying, circulation or other use of this
message and any attachments is strictly
prohibited. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately
by return e-mail, and delete this message and
any attachments from your system.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<table class="MsoNormalTable"
style="border:none;border-top:solid #D3D4DE 1.0pt"
border="1" cellpadding="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style="width:41.25pt;border:none;padding:9.75pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt" width="55">
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon"
target="_blank"><span
style="text-decoration:none"><img
moz-do-not-send="true" id="_x0000_i1030"
src="https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-no-repeat-v1.gif"
height="29" border="0" width="46"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</td>
<td style="width:352.5pt;border:none;padding:9.0pt
.75pt .75pt .75pt" width="470">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:13.5pt"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#41424E">Virus-free.
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link"
target="_blank"><span style="color:#4453EA">www.avast.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p><br>
</p>
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