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<p>Mark:</p>
<p>Thank you for these citations. I will make a note of them.</p>
<p>So, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5895.txt">RFC5895
"Mapping Characters for Internationalized Domain Names in
Applications (IDNA) 2008"</a>, section 2 "The General Procedure",
says, <br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p>4. If an implementation of this mapping is also performing the
step of separation of the parts of a domain name into labels by
using the FULL STOP character (U+002E), the IDEOGRAPHIC FULL
STOP character (U+3002) can be mapped to the FULL STOP before
label separation occurs. There are other characters that are
used as "full stops" that one could consider mapping as label
separators, but their use as such has not been investigated
thoroughly. This step was chosen because some input mechanisms
do not allow the user to easily enter proper label separators.
Only the IDEOGRAPHIC FULL STOP character (U+3002) is added in
this mapping because the authors have not fully investigated the
applicability of other characters and the environments where
they should and should not be considered domain name label
separators.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>And <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr46/">UTS #46 "Unicode
IDNA Compatibility Processing"</a>, section 2.3 "Notation",
says, <br>
</p>
<blockquote>
<p>In this document, a label is a substring of a domain name. That
substring is bounded on both sides by either the start or the
end of the string, or any of the following characters, called
label-separators:<br>
</p>
<ol>
<li>U+002E ( . ) FULL STOP</li>
<li>U+FF0E ( ． ) FULLWIDTH FULL STOP</li>
<li>U+3002 ( 。 ) IDEOGRAPHIC FULL STOP</li>
<li>U+FF61 ( ｡ ) HALFWIDTH IDEOGRAPHIC FULL STOP</li>
</ol>
</blockquote>
<p>From my point of view as a UASG explainer, this is good an
sufficient grounding for a recommendation that apps treat U+3002
as a label separator. I would go further and warn people that this
list might grow; that U+FF0E and U+FF61 may be on their way.<br>
</p>
<p>It would good to have a footnote somewhere linking our
recommendation to those documents. I see UASG007 cites RFC5895 in
general (I don't see a citation to UTS #46 in UASG007). Actually,
this probably belongs more in a wiki somewhere, a list of the
things UASG recommends and why we recommend them. This will help
us as we bring more UA explainers up to speed.<br>
</p>
<p>(Interesting, I just noticed that UASG007 also recommends
treating the Arabic full stop character “۔” (U+06D4) as a label
separator. UTS #46 and RFC5885 don't mention that.)</p>
<p>Thank you for the citations, Mark. Best regards,<br>
—Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2017-11-06 15:42, Mark Svancarek
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Correction,
UTS#46 <u>and</u> RFC5895<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a name="_MailEndCompose"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p>
<span style="mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose"></span>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext"> Mark Svancarek
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 6, 2017 3:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> 'Simon Cousins'
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:simon@allegravita.com"><simon@allegravita.com></a>; Jim DeLaHunt
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jfrom.uasg@jdlh.com"><jfrom.uasg@jdlh.com></a>; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org">ua-discuss@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [UA-discuss] The Open Dot as a label
delimiter in Chinese and Japanese<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I advocated
open dot equivalency based on UTS#46 when writing UASG007.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Simon Cousins<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 3, 2017 1:23 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Jim DeLaHunt <<a
href="mailto:jfrom.uasg@jdlh.com"
moz-do-not-send="true">jfrom.uasg@jdlh.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">ua-discuss@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [UA-discuss] The Open Dot as a label
delimiter in Chinese and Japanese<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">When typing
in Chinese using any (probably all) of the common text input
methods, hitting the period key on a standard keyboard will
always insert an open dot.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img style="width:.7708in;height:.4375in"
id="Picture_x0020_1"
src="cid:part8.58769F99.5968D9AA@jdlh.com" class=""
width="74" border="0" height="42"><span
style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">I have two
browsers installed on this Windows 10 PC, Chrome and Edge.
Both, when typing Chinese into the browser URL bar, insert
an ascii dot when the period key is hit. I’d assume just
about all contemporary browsers would do this. It’d be crazy
annoying to the user, otherwise.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><img style="width:1.8125in;height:.4062in"
id="Picture_x0020_2"
src="cid:part9.7A07AD8E.C01FE5A7@jdlh.com" class=""
width="174" border="0" height="39"><span
style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Best, S.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Simon
Cousins | </span><span
style="font-family:DengXian;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">夏明</span><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">CEO,
Allegravita LLC & </span>
<span style="font-family:"Microsoft
JhengHei",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">北京乐微塔营销咨询有限公司</span><span
style="color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">
</span><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">USA: 32 W 39
St 4<sup>th</sup> Floor, New York NY 10018<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">China: </span><span
style="font-family:"Microsoft
JhengHei",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">北京市海淀区苏州街</span><span style="color:windowtext">55</span><span
style="font-family:"Microsoft
JhengHei",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">号</span><span style="color:windowtext">3</span><span
style="font-family:"Microsoft
JhengHei",sans-serif;color:windowtext;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">层</span><span style="color:windowtext">01-A509<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:simon@allegravita.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span style="color:#0563C1">simon@allegravita.com</span></a><span
style="color:windowtext"> | +1 347 850-3360 | +86 139
1010-5401<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext">
<a href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim DeLaHunt<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, November 3, 2017 4:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">ua-discuss@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [UA-discuss] The Open Dot as a label
delimiter in Chinese and Japanese<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p>Don:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> Does anyone have reference or even perception to how
widely used the Open Dot is in Chinese, Japanese and/or other
script?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Sure. Starting references: <<a
href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FChinese_punctuation%23Punctuation_marks&data=02%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7C8d419c38ce284eb2e43108d522f8c30f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636453374225236452&sdata=ZFgnt3TdVzU1W80MyIs%2B6tzai2ZUAxfsr2%2FjMFArn54%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_punctuation#Punctuation_marks</a>>,
<<a
href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FJapanese_punctuation%23Full_stop&data=02%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7C8d419c38ce284eb2e43108d522f8c30f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636453374225236452&sdata=yPIWa2HFbh4iltGvScYIEyhee%2FBjESGwSRJ3YfcZYqo%3D&reserved=0"
moz-do-not-send="true">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_punctuation#Full_stop</a>>.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In my experience developing publishing software and fonts for
high-end Japanese typography, I can confirm that U+3002 [<span
style="font-family:DengXian;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">。</span>] is routine in Japanese language text.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>However.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In English language orthography, the U+002E FULL STOP [.] is
used as a delimiter between fields of structured data, as well
as a sentence ending punctuation. Consider a phone number
like 212.555.1212, or a date like 3.11.17 . I think it is
clearer to understand the U+002E between labels of a domain
name as a delimiter rather than as a sentence-ending full
stop.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>In Chinese and Japanese language orthography, what are the
marks conventionally used as delimiters in everyday text?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>And, <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>> UASG004 states “We expect software to transform the
‘open dot’ to a standard ASCII dot “.”, thus making use of the
already registered domain name.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Do we know what the source is for this expectation? Did it
come from perspectives informed about Chinese and Japanese
culture? Did this perspective show that U+3002 [<span
style="font-family:DengXian;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">。</span>] would be preferred as a delimiter
between domain name labels, over U+002E [.] or other
punctuation? Or did we at UASG make a guess at the Chinese
and Japanese perspective?
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>If we are not confident that U+3002 [<span
style="font-family:DengXian;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">。</span>] is preferred as a delimiter by people
in those cultures, I think UASG should consider very carefully
before advocating its use.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p> —Jim DeLaHunt, Vancouver, Canada<o:p></o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 2017-11-02 17:10, Don Hollander wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">G’day: <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The UASG has in the past indicated that
good practice is to treat the Open Dot as a label
delimiter, just like the traditional full-stop.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">The
ideographic full stop (U+3002 [<span
style="font-family:DengXian;mso-fareast-language:ZH-CN"
lang="ZH-CN">。</span>]) is used in languages such as
Chinese or Japanese to mark the end of a sentence. UASG004
states “We expect software to transform the ‘open dot’ to
a standard ASCII dot “.”, thus making use of the already
registered domain name.”<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We found that some browsers do this.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">As we go through the Linkification
review, we’re not seeing this happen for social media
communications apps.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Does anyone have reference or even
perception to how widely used the Open Dot is in
Chinese, Japanese and/or other script?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Don<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Don Hollander <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Universal Acceptance Steering
Group<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Skype: don_hollander<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<pre>-- <o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> --Jim DeLaHunt, <a href="mailto:jdlh@jdlh.com" moz-do-not-send="true">jdlh@jdlh.com</a> <a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.jdlh.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7C8d419c38ce284eb2e43108d522f8c30f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636453374225236452&sdata=wB7AvvGI%2Bc7vWjHrf0WPk3MxR3O3gutJTrscokifXSo%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">http://blog.jdlh.com/</a> (<a href="https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fjdlh.com%2F&data=02%7C01%7Cmarksv%40microsoft.com%7C8d419c38ce284eb2e43108d522f8c30f%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C636453374225236452&sdata=0Kh%2Bbj0hMpXvyjX2ACfXvLfWTWH0oAIjz1G6RtU15Oc%3D&reserved=0" moz-do-not-send="true">http://jdlh.com/</a>)<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> multilingual websites consultant<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre> 355-1027 Davie St, Vancouver BC V6E 4L2, Canada<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre> Canada mobile +1-604-376-8953<o:p></o:p></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--Jim DeLaHunt, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdlh@jdlh.com">jdlh@jdlh.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blog.jdlh.com/">http://blog.jdlh.com/</a> (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://jdlh.com/">http://jdlh.com/</a>)
multilingual websites consultant
355-1027 Davie St, Vancouver BC V6E 4L2, Canada
Canada mobile +1-604-376-8953
</pre>
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