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<p>I agree that this is an interesting message that would be useful
to have on the web.</p>
<p>But rather than Wikipedia as a first place to publish it, I think
it's better to publish it as a white paper or blog post or
something of that sort, where it will be a reliable source. Then
someone can edit it into Wikipedia, citing the reliable source.
And, if there is disagreement among Wikipedia editors about the
contribution, the information is still available on the web.<br>
</p>
<p> —Jim DeLaHunt<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2019-12-07 05:38, Larry Masinter
wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">This is an
interesting message that would be useful to have on the web.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext">Wikipedia?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in
0in 0in 4.0pt">
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="color:windowtext"> UA-discuss
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org"><ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org></a> <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Asmus Freytag<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 25, 2019 11:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org">ua-discuss@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [UA-discuss] [EXTERNAL] Re: Ideas
for engagement with stakeholders in Germany<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 11/25/2019 4:22 AM, Maxim Alzoba
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Mark, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">the topic is quite complex one (from
the operational and legal perspective), <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">we should not invent rights not
existing in the real world (and we should not forget
abut rights of the Registrants).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Potentially some variants of the same
word might be in the hands of different rightful
registrants, and who is going to decide <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">which one wins? <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<p>With variants you have the following issues:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(1) if they are imposed after the fact, you'll need to have
some policy for grandfathering<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>That's why, for the root zone, we categorically ruled out,
for example, any variants (even implied by transitivity)
between ASCII code points. And we test all proposed LGRs
against delegated TLDs.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(2) if they are allocatable, you have issues with
multiplicity.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>A longer label may have several code points with variants,
which naively would lead to huge multiplicities. That's why,
in the root zone, we go to some lengths defining allocatable
(code point) variants so that allocatable variant labels are
limited to a very small number; usually by requiring all
variants to be of the same type (e.g. all traditional/all
simplified for Chinese).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(3) if they are allocatable, you have issues with
predictability.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Not all applicants want all possible allocatable variants
actually delegated. That's why, in the root zone, we've
tried to limit allocatable variants to contexts where both
users and applicants clearly understand their scope (e.g.
Chinese simplified and traditional). <o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(4) if they are blocked variants, they need to be full
equivalents, not merely similar<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Otherwise, transitivity will kill you. Any variant of a
code point needs to also be a variant of all the other
variants for that code point (transitivity). If variants are
merely similar, you quickly get "variants" between
dissimilar code points. That's why, in the root zone, we are
limiting variants to cases where code points are accepted as
fully equivalent.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(5) if you base variant definition on a limited sample of
languages, you'll be surprised<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>What works in a limited context may create issues if you
plan on allowing labels in other scripts or other languages
in the same zone. That's why, in the root zone, we
investigated over 200 writing systems for the Latin script,
for example.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(6) if you don't define certain allocatable variants,
you'll run into usability issues<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Typically the case where users of different regions share a
script (and/or language) but regional conventions conflict.
For example the case in Arabic, where local keyboards may
have a look-alike character, so if you can't offer both
versions of your label, you cannot reach some communities.
That's why, in the root zone, we have allocatable variant
definitions for Arabic, Chinese, and for the case of
sharp-s/ss, for example.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>(7) if you don't have blocked variants, you can't take
obvious issues "off the table"<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>There are a surprising number of letters (or for the second
level, also digits) that have exact (intentional)
look-alikes in Unicode. (They are considered different for
other reasons than appearance, for example they belong to
different scripts, have different case pairings, etc). These
cases are quite obvious equivalences and can, and should be
taken off the table, up front and mechanically. That's why,
in the root zone, we ensure that such cases become blocked
variants.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>Now, why were we discussing this again?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p>A./<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt">Sincerely
Yours,<br>
<br>
Maxim Alzoba<br>
Special projects manager,<br>
International Relations Department,<br>
FAITID<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:8.5pt">Current UTC
offset: +3.00 (.Moscow)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 25 Nov 2019, at 11:05, Mark
Svancarek (CELA) via UA-discuss <<a
href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">ua-discuss@icann.org</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rubens, what is your opinion
regarding variants policy? Should registrants
be obliged to register all variants at the 2<sup>nd</sup><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>level to
avoid confusion?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in
0in;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>UA-discuss
<<a
href="mailto:ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">ua-discuss-bounces@icann.org</span></a>><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark
W. Datysgeld<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday,
November 24, 2019 1:13 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">ua-discuss@icann.org</span></a>;
Rubens Kuhl <<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">rubensk@nic.br</span></a>>;
ua-discuss <<a
href="mailto:ua-discuss@icann.org"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">ua-discuss@icann.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[EXTERNAL]
Re: [UA-discuss] Ideas for engagement with
stakeholders in Germany<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I
see Rubens might have a vested interest in this
one. :D<br>
--<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
Mark W. Datysgeld from Governance Primer [<a
href="http://www.markwd.website/"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">www.markwd.website</span></a>]<br>
In partnership with AR-TARC and the Brazilian
Association of Software Companies (ABES)<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On November 24, 2019
5:19:51 AM GMT+01:00, Rubens Kuhl <<a
href="mailto:rubensk@nic.br"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">rubensk@nic.br</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid
windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;border-left-color:rgb(204,
204, 204)">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 24 Nov 2019, at
00:22, Mark W. Datysgeld <<a
href="mailto:mark@governanceprimer.com"
moz-do-not-send="true"><span
style="color:purple">mark@governanceprimer.com</span></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello everyone,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I exchanged a few
messages with Lars earlier this
year, and would like to present
below some points he raised that
should be useful both for the IGF
next week and looking towards ICANN
meeting C next year, being tailored
towards German stakeholders. In my
view, we can aim to always try
gathering such regional insights
moving forward to optimize our
engagement.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>Special
characters:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Eszett
(ß) and Umlaut (ü) have fallback
options by default:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<ul style="margin-top:0in" type="disc">
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Eszett
becomes "ss".<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Capital
Eszett (ẞ) has only recently been
introduced officially to the
language, meaning that anything in
capital letters used to be written
using "SS" even on the press.<o:p></o:p></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1">Umlaut
characters (ä, ö, ü) become "ae",
"oe", "ue".<o:p></o:p></li>
</ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Long live the Umlaut!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Rubens Kühl<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
By submitting your personal data, you consent to
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</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre><o:p> </o:p></pre>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos" moz-do-not-send="true">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.<o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">
_______________________________________________
By submitting your personal data, you consent to the processing of your personal data for purposes of subscribing to this mailing list accordance with the ICANN Privacy Policy (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy">https://www.icann.org/privacy/policy</a>) and the website Terms of Service (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos">https://www.icann.org/privacy/tos</a>). You can visit the Mailman link above to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on.</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
--Jim DeLaHunt, <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jdlh@jdlh.com">jdlh@jdlh.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://blog.jdlh.com/">http://blog.jdlh.com/</a> (<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://jdlh.com/">http://jdlh.com/</a>)
multilingual websites consultant
355-1027 Davie St, Vancouver BC V6E 4L2, Canada
Canada mobile +1-604-376-8953
</pre>
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