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    Thanks Greg and Steve<br>
    <br>
    I had looked at some of the lawyer responses, but I will return to
    the docs and look again.<br>
    <br>
    Paul<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/11/15 3:03 AM, Steve DelBianco
      wrote:<br>
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          <div>Paul — Greg’s answer is what I was thinking, too.  </div>
          <div>When you get a chance, look at the lawyer docs regarding
            Member and Designator models.</div>
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          <div>Best,</div>
          <div>Steve</div>
          <div>
            <div id="MAC_OUTLOOK_SIGNATURE">
              <div>—</div>
              <div>
                <div>Steve DelBianco</div>
                <div>Executive Director</div>
                <div>NetChoice</div>
                <div><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://www.netchoice.org/">http://www.NetChoice.org</a> and <a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="http://blog.netchoice.org/">http://blog.netchoice.org</a></div>
                <div>+1.703.615.6206</div>
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          <span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>Greg Shatan<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Friday, April 10,
          2015 at 12:51 PM<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Paul Twomey<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a
            moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:wp2@icann.org">wp2@icann.org</a>",
          "<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:wp1@icann.org">wp1@icann.org</a>"<br>
          <span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [WP1]
          Comment on various discussion of membership model<br>
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              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Paul,</div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I think this is a
                little different than past thoughts on membership.  What
                is being considered here is that current ICANN entities
                (e.g., SO/AC/SG/C/RALO organizations) would themselves
                be the members.  This has its issues, but it probably
                avoids most if not all the issues you cite.  Further, I
                don't think anyone is looking to change the current open
                participatory model.</div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Best regards,</div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg Shatan</div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
              </div>
              <div class="gmail_default"
                style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Apologies for
                brevity.</div>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all">
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                    <p style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;line-height:12pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><b><span
                          style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: Arial,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(23, 54, 93);">Gregory
                          S. Shatan </span></b><b><span
                          style="font-size: 8pt; color: rgb(23, 54,
                          93);">ï</span></b><b><span style="font-size:
                          9pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color:
                          rgb(23, 54, 93);"> </span></b><b><span
                          style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial,
                          sans-serif; color: rgb(192, 80, 77);">Abelman
                          Frayne &amp; Schwab</span></b><span
                        style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif;"></span></p>
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                          style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial,
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0.0001pt;line-height:12pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><b><i><span
                            style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial,
                            sans-serif; color: navy;"><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:gsshatan@lawabel.com"
                              target="_blank">gsshatan@lawabel.com</a></span></i></b><span
                        style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif;"></span></p>
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0.0001pt;line-height:12pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><b><span
                          style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial,
                          sans-serif; color: navy;">ICANN-related:<span> </span><i><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com"
                              target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a></i></span></b><span
                        style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif;"></span></p>
                    <p style="margin:0in 0in
0.0001pt;line-height:12pt;background-image:initial;background-repeat:initial"><b><i><span
                            style="font-size: 8pt; font-family: Arial,
                            sans-serif; color: navy;"><a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="http://www.lawabel.com/"
                              target="_blank">www.lawabel.com</a></span></i></b><span
                        style="font-size: 9.5pt; font-family: Arial,
                        sans-serif;"></span></p>
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              <br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 10, 2015 at 12:26 PM,
                Paul Twomey <span dir="ltr">
                  &lt;<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:paul.twomey@argopacific.com"
                    target="_blank">paul.twomey@argopacific.com</a>&gt;</span>
                wrote:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  <div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Hi Mathieu,
                    Thomas and Jordan<br>
                    <br>
                    I have been following the great work of the CCWG
                    from outside for some time, but only recently joined
                    as a participant.  
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    I wonder if I may raise a concern, that I am not
                    sure how best to insert into the various working
                    group and other lists.   I see in discussion papers
                    from the lawyers and in various comments on the
                    lists, the consideration of ICANN adopting a
                    membership model.   Now I realise that this is only
                    one option and I support the approach of developing
                    out models for the community to consider.  I am
                    sorry to be coming to this issue later than others,
                    and perhaps you will be able to parse my concern to
                    the right audience.<br>
                    <br>
                    I wanted to raise my grave concerns about the
                    potential unintended consequences of a membership
                    model for ICANN.   Having reviewed non-profit legal
                    structures throughout much of the world, I realise
                    that the membership model is common, particularly in
                    parts of Europe.  But it is not a universally
                    accepted model.<br>
                    <br>
                    For an international organisation serving a changing
                    Internet community, there is a big difference
                    between a "participatory" model and a "membership"
                    model.   In 1997-99 we discussed these issues very
                    carefully, and settled on an open-ended
                    participatory model to ensure the best mix of "all
                    can feel free to attend and participate" with an
                    incentive, similar to the IETF, to reward
                    meritocratic participation.   This also had the very
                    important benefit of not building anti-trust risk by
                    having participation limited only to a set of
                    members who may at some time show cartel like
                    behaviour.   And as the litigation with Verisign
                    from 2003-05 showed, anti-trust and other litigation
                    can be a VERY significant risk to ICANN (or any
                    other entity with limited resources).   It does not
                    matter what jurisdiction, judges can bring down
                    harsh damages for anti-trust action.  Now throughout
                    the Verisign litigation, the courts regularly came
                    down on the side of ICANN, and its open
                    participation model was an important factor in their
                    evaluation of ICANN's decisions.<br>
                    <br>
                    Further, many may not recall, but the one time ICANN
                    considered a form of more 'class based membership' -
                    the election for board members based on anyone who
                    had a domain name - we saw important differences.  
                    While some regions had voters only in the hundreds (
                    a reflection of the activists who cared then), one
                    region suddenly went through a very different
                    dynamic.   A candidate from one economy was getting
                    tens of thousands of votes, then suddenly a rival
                    economy had a candidate who attracted over 100,000
                    votes and then a third rival economy put forward a
                    candidate and was garnering tens of thousands of
                    votes a day, before the deadline cut this
                    competition off.   Now, they were all excellent
                    candidates, but the point is that mere inter-country
                    rivalry resulted in very significant mobilisation of
                    empowered voters who were not necessarily motivated
                    by the mission and values of ICANN - it appeared
                    more a form of nationalist competition.  
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    I can foresee numerous scenarios where if ICANN were
                    to move to a membership model that such non-mission
                    related incentives could end up with large numbers
                    of members being recruited.  Indeed, a membership
                    model may also put in place perverse incentives for
                    contracted or other affected parties (companies,
                    associations, governments, ethnic groupings) to
                    mobilise large numbers of members. 
                    <i>Remember, members do not have to be participants</i>. 
                    But by the fact of having membership they get a more
                    or equal say.    And clever players could game
                    restrictions within various SOs/ACs to build
                    coalitions of members in each.<br>
                    <br>
                    I have seen this sort of gaming occur in several
                    large important membership organisations.   Indeed,
                    in one in Australia, a roadside-assistance
                    organization, the membership dynamics eventually
                    developed into two parties which were defacto
                    proxies for the country's main political parties -
                    and the two sides spent years in the courts trying
                    to outdo each other. 
                    <br>
                    <br>
                    I apologise if this issue has already been discussed
                    fully by the CCWG in meetings.   I just wanted to
                    put into the mix concerns about unintended
                    consequences.<br>
                    <br>
                    Best<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
                        <br>
                        Paul<br>
                        <br>
                        <br>
                        <pre cols="72">-- 
Dr Paul Twomey
Managing Director
Argo P@cific 

US Cell: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B1%20310%20279%202366" value="+13102792366" target="_blank">+1 310 279 2366</a>
Aust M: <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="tel:%2B61%20416%20238%20501" value="+61416238501" target="_blank">+61 416 238 501</a><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.argopacific.com" target="_blank">www.argopacific.com</a></pre>
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                </blockquote>
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    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- 
Dr Paul Twomey
Managing Director
Argo P@cific 

US Cell: +1 310 279 2366
Aust M: +61 416 238 501

<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.argopacific.com">www.argopacific.com</a></pre>
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