<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">It is true that robust community consultation during the operating plan/budget process will reduce the likelihood that an unacceptable budget will end up before the Board. But it does not eliminate that as a real possibility.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">It is true that if the Board has an unacceptable budget before it, the Board should not adopt it. But that is still a real possibility. They may not deem it unacceptable; they may think that their view of the Budget is better for ICANN and the global public interest than that of the community. So they may pass that budget.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The community should have the power to veto that budget. Giving the community only the power to remove the Board under those circumstances is overkill. Even if it is one likely scenario after such a budget approval, it is not the only likely scenario. If you thought you should replace the plumbing in your house, would you want a rule that says your only option is to blow up your house? </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 10:48 AM, Roelof Meijer <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl" target="_blank">Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<div>James,</div>
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<div>I surely did not suggest a “simple 2 step” procedure. Your escalation path is the right way and part of it is already the present way.</div>
<div>My point is that we do not need the “community veto power”. If a sufficient majority of the community is dead against the budget and has expressed that clearly and consistently, the board should not adopt that budget. If the board however does not listen/yield,
but adopts the budget, that board (or at least those members that voted in favor of adoption) should not be (legally en)forced to listen to the community and then continue to serve as board.</div>
<div>They should be sent away. Because they will have proved to be totally unfit to serve the community.</div>
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<div><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">Best,</font></font></div>
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<div><font color="#000000"><font face="Calibri">Roelof</font></font></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span>James Gannon <<a href="mailto:james@cyberinvasion.net" target="_blank">james@cyberinvasion.net</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>donderdag 8 oktober 2015 12:38<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Chris Disspain <<a href="mailto:ceo@auda.org.au" target="_blank">ceo@auda.org.au</a>>, Roelof Meijer <<a href="mailto:roelof.meijer@sidn.nl" target="_blank">roelof.meijer@sidn.nl</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [WP1] Budget<br>
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<div>I think everyone would agree with that. I think however that relying on such a powerful tool and realising the impact on the corporation that would come from exercising such a ‘last resort power’ it is prudent for us to have alternative means to settle
issues that require a community power that can be exercised without jumping to removing board members or spilling the board which should be our powers of last resort.</div>
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<div>I think having a graded escalation path</div>
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<li>Talking between the community and staff/board (Something which I think the process of the CCWG has shown needs serious work) </li><li>Semi-formal consultation process </li><li>Formal and serious consultation/warning process </li><li>Community veto power which then goes to </li><li>Removing directors</li><li>Removing boards </li></ol>
<div>Is a much more risk adverse and less impactful process when it comes to any of the community powers rather than a 2 step ‘do this or we will remove you from your role’ process which I can’t see being a collaborative process for everyone involved. Or a
pleasant process for sitting board members either to be honest. </div>
<div>I will always be in favour and support a process with minimal impact and one that fosters staged responses from both sides over one that jumps to the top of the escalation path directly.</div>
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<div>-James</div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><<a href="mailto:wp1-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Chris Disspain<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Thursday 8 October 2015 at 11:25 a.m.<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>Roelof Meijer<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Cc: </span>"<a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a>"<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>Re: [WP1] Budget<br>
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<span style="font-family:'Verdana';font-size:13px;color:rgb(102,102,102)">Agreed. If the community wants the Board removal power but believes it will never use it (which, in effect, makes it of no value) then don’t require it. As a current Board member
and future non-board member who expects to still be a community member, I value it as a ‘power’ and believe it is worthwhile and effective.<br>
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Cheers,</p>
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Chris</p>
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<div>On 8 Oct 2015, at 21:18 , Roelof Meijer <<a href="mailto:Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl" target="_blank">Roelof.Meijer@sidn.nl</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Tijani,</div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">Somewhere in June, I wrote on this subject:</div>
<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">"<span style="color:rgb(41,40,52);font-family:Calibri;font-size:13px">Like I said this morning: if the community has to have it’s veto of the budget legally enforced,
the disconnect between the board and the community is so complete, that the board would have to (be forced to) resign. So there’s no need at all for a condition that the mechanism should deliver full authority on the budget."</span></div>
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<div>I<font style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><font face="Calibri"> am still of that opinion. If the community has the (enforceable) power to dismiss the board or part thereof,
it has the ultimate power to steer any (important) process</font></font></div>
<div><font style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><font face="Calibri"><br>
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<div><font style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><font face="Calibri">Best,</font></font></div>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px"><font><font face="Calibri">Roelof</font></font></div>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From:<span> </span></span><<a href="mailto:wp1-bounces@icann.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">wp1-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Tijani BEN JEMAA <<a href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@fmai.org.tn" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">tijani.benjemaa@fmai.org.tn</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date:<span> </span></span>dinsdag 6 oktober 2015 20:19<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To:<span> </span></span>"<a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:<span> </span></span>[WP1] Budget<br>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">Jordan and all,<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">As promised during the last call, here is my take regarding the community power about the budget:<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">I notice that we are much more focusing on the Budget veto after its adoption by the board than on the involvement of the community in the budget
development.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">Since few years , Xavier formed a community ad hoc group to discuss the budget preparation from the planning till the last public comment period
before transmitting the budget to the board for adoption. This experience has been improved over the years and now, we have a very good consultation process that makes the budget almost agreed on by the community. By the way, the ad hoc group will have a workshop
of several hours in Dublin.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">I think that all of us wish that we will never meet the situation where an adopted budget is rejected by the community; at least I do. And to avoid
such a situation, I proposed that we formalize the current consultation, and make it part of the official budget development process. I find it more important and more constructive to strengthen this a priori involvement of the community in the budget development.
I know that it was mentioned in our second report, but wasn’t given the appropriate importance and wasn’t elaborated with sufficient details.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(54,95,145)">I propose that our final report makes this a priori involvement of the community the main path and the veto, that I hope we will get rid of, the
exceptional and ultimate way.<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u> <u></u></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">Tijani BEN JEMAA<u></u><u></u></span></b></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">Executive Director<u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations<span> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">(<b>FMAI</b>)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:13pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)"><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">Phone: <a href="tel:%2B%20216%2041%20649%20605" value="+21641649605" target="_blank">+ 216 41 649 605</a><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">Mobile: <a href="tel:%2B%20216%2098%20330%20114" value="+21698330114" target="_blank">+ 216 98 330 114</a><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">Fax: <a href="tel:%2B%20216%2070%20853%C2%A0376" value="+21670853376" target="_blank">+ 216 70 853 376</a><u></u><u></u></span></div>
<div style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(23,54,93)">--------------------------------------------------------------------------------<u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div>
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<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/wp1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;font-family:Verdana;font-size:13px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/wp1</a></div>
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<br>_______________________________________________<br>
WP1 mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:WP1@icann.org">WP1@icann.org</a><br>
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