<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Phil, Robin, James:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I agree with you. On the other hand, if we are in fact in a negotiation, we might be better off acknowledging that fact and changing our working methods (and our method of working with our counsel) to engage fully and forcefully in that negotiation.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">While I've spent a lot of my working life engaging in negotiations and advising clients in negotiations, the CCWG (and by extension the community) is a peculiar type of client. The closest analogy I can think of would be a labor union or an industry group. While I'm not sure we should go down that route, a non-acknowledged negotiation between a large, distributed and non-coordinated party, on the one hand, and a a smaller, more-coordinated party, on the other hand, seems like a suboptimal scenario from the point of view of the larger party.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 5:46 PM, Greg Shatan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">The process used for the Board/staff to engage with the community prior to the adoption of a strategic plan, operating plan or budget is the path. It is very necessary (and I have been emphasizing the need to discuss processes and paths, and not merely the enforcement of powers, for some time).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">However, it is not sufficient. In the end, if the community is to hold ICANN accountable, there needs to be a power to be exercised by the community. This overarching concept seems very scary to some, and completely fundamental to others. That is our problem in a nutshell.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">In this instance, the power is veto. The better our process and path, and the more that the Board/staff takes into account the community input (and the more that the process and path <u>require</u> the Board/staff to adopt community input), the less likely it is that the power will ever be exercised.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">But that is no argument against the establishment of that power.</div><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div></font></span></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Oct 11, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Phil Corwin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com" target="_blank">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">+1<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">The Board’s views as a stakeholder should be fully considered.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However, the ultimate recommendations of the CCWG should represent its views as to the most feasible means of providing necessary accountability enhancements
to accompany the IANA transition, rather than the amount of dilution required to avoid Board opposition.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Suite 1050</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"><a href="tel:202-559-8597" value="+12025598597" target="_blank">202-559-8597</a>/Direct</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"><a href="tel:202-559-8750" value="+12025598750" target="_blank">202-559-8750</a>/Fax</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"><a href="tel:202-255-6172" value="+12022556172" target="_blank">202-255-6172</a>/cell</span></b><b><span style="color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b><span style="color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:wp1-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wp1-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robin Gross<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, October 11, 2015 12:09 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [WP1] Sensible caretaker approaches where a budget veto was exercised<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">The more this proposal becomes a bi-lateral negotiation between the community and the board, then the less this process holds legitimacy as a bottom-up multi-stakeholder consensus-building model. I fear we are on the verge of losing any
legitimacy we previously had by the move of our discussions to focusing on what would make the board happy and be willing to stop fighting the output of the group.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Robin<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Oct 11, 2015, at 7:08 AM, Asha Hemrajani wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Jordan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I do share your objective of solution finding. I wanted to suggest a solution that would build on the community-staff-board collaboration done for the FY16 budget
which Tijani and I have experienced and which Cherine described. Also wanted to emphasize the areas where we are in agreement: we have no issue with the IANA budget falling back to the previous year’s budget + we have no issue with veto (upto 2 times rejection)
of the 5 year plans. The only area we seem to disagree on is the veto of annual op plan and budget of the non-IANA portion of the budget.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Nothing I have described is any different from what is Cherine’s proposal.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I am still committed to working with you towards a solution.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Asha<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">From:
</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><<a href="mailto:wp1-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Jordan Carter <<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</a>><br>
<b>Date: </b>Sunday, 11 October 2015 3:30 pm<br>
<b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:wp1@icann.org" target="_blank">wp1@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject: </b>[WP1] Sensible caretaker approaches where a budget veto was exercised<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">hi all, hi Asha:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">On 11 October 2015 at 00:39, Asha Hemrajani <<a href="mailto:asha.hemrajani@icann.org" target="_blank">asha.hemrajani@icann.org</a>> wrote:<br>
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<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Hi Jordan<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Just to be clear:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">We are now talking about veto of the annual operating plan and annual budget, which is extremely time sensitive…not about the veto of the 5 year strat or op plan.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">This is not new information. This is what we have been dealing with since we started writing this power down in April. I think we're all clear about what the
subject matter is. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">With all due respect Jordan, “all that would happen is that the previous year’s budget would roll over” will not work – what about new community projects and expenses that did not exist in the
previous year? What if the number of staff was different (higher), would we say, let’s not pay the additional staff? What if the meeting venues happen to be in more expensive countries, how could we use the previous year’s budget to pay the venue operators?
<u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Do you agree that any such a mess would be the Board's responsibility? See expansion on this point below.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">If we need to spell out in greater detail what the caretaker provision would be, let's do that. For instance, the following (or something like it) could well
be suitable, and isn't at variance with what the CCWG has already elaborated:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">"Where a budget has been vetoed and there is no budget for the start of the financial year, ICANN must have the capacity to carry on core operations while
the disagreement is resolved.</span></i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">"The Board has the authority to approve an interim Budget and Operating Plan that must allow for expenditure no greater than 110% of the amount provided for
in the previous year's Budget. In such an Interim Budget the caretaker approach is paramount: major new projects or the ending of major areas of work will not be acceptable in an Interim Budget. </span></i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">"The Board will endeavour to propose a revised Annual Budget and Operating Plan as soon as it can. The interim Budget and Operating Plan must not apply resources
to the specific projects that were the cause of the concerns leading to the budget veto, unless there is a direct and short-term risk to the security and stability of the DNS involved."</span></i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">Something like the above avoids the paralysis point, avoids the "repeat last year's plans?!" problem, and brackets the plan and the budget which funds the plan
together.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">It would be far more constructive for us to "solve the problem" than to fly kites that can be taken out of context and used to undermine the whole work of the
CCWG. May I respectfully suggest that all of us take a "problem solving and consensus building" approach to this?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">The idea that anyone would want to create a situation where "ICANN repeats last year's projects all over again" or "the staff won't get paid!" is clearly not
a situation that anyone wants to see emerge.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Please note, this is very different from the case of the
<b><i><u>IANA budget</u></i></b>. Cherine’s proposal states very clearly that fallback to the previous year’s IANA budget would be acceptable.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ol>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I want to quote Cherine to re-emphasize my previous points: "The best way to empower the community is to enshrine in the Bylaws a community input process and
a consultation process into the development of the Annual Operating Plan and Budget, as well as the power to Veto any deviation from the approved Operating Plan and Budget that are inconsistent with the Strategic Plan and the Mission. Remember that the community
will have the power to remove individual Directors or recall the entire Board. This is the ultimate power compared to just freezing a number and creating chaos for everyone; community included.”<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">As above, I do not agree that any chaos would arise. Inconvenience and uncertainty, yes.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I would like to restate my point from my last message. Cherine has ably described the Board's theoretical role in approving the budget in a message earlier in
this thread. It oversees the staff process and validates that the community's input has been taken into account.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">When that happens, perfect. There won't be strident community comments at the last stage of that staff process saying concerns weren't listened to. Because no
such concerns would have been raised, no veto could emerge (a veto can only, in the CCWG's proposal, be made on issues that have
<b><u>already been raised</u></b>.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">If the ICANN Board was so wrong-headed as to persist with a proposal that led to a veto, given all the early warning signals that are or will be built into the
process, then it is the Board and nobody else that would have to take responsibility for the consequences.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">I do not believe the Board would do this. But the veto is the ultimate way to make it structurally impossible for it to attempt such a course of action - it makes
the consequences too negative, and that is the whole point.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black">best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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