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To me, the question is: why do we think <i>we're </i>in a better
position, now, to determine what an appropriate limitations period should
be, than the IRP itself will be, when it sees how the process works in
practice? <br><br>
There's an awful lot we don't (and can't) know about how this process
actually will work, all of which bears upon the question of what a
reasonable limitations period should be: will the IRP be flooded with
claims, or will it have little to do? will there be lots of
frivolous claims, or few? lots of claims asking it to do
things/decide cases it's not authorized to hear, or few? what kind
of "pleading requirements" is it going to impose on claimants
before a case can be opened? <br><br>
Perhaps there's a concern that the IRP will make the "wrong"
decision - that it will adopt a too-short period (because it doesn't want
additional work) or a too-long period (because it's power-hungry and
wants to involve itself in ICANN affairs more than is appropriate).
I can see that - though it hearkens back to my views about the importance
of making the IRP a true institution within ICANN rather than just a
faceless collection of arbitrators who are mostly concerned with other
things; I think part of the WG's task is to design an IRP that will make
sensible decisions, including decisions about its own procedures and
processes, down the road. <br><br>
I share the concern about claims being open forever - but a 30 day period
swings much too far, in my opinion, in the other direction. It's an
alarmingly short period of time - particularly if there are complicated
filing requirements (as there well may be). if there's going to be
a limit stated in the bylaws, i'd suggest making it a long period to
start with (no claims after 1 year, or even 2 years), subject to the
IRP's power to revise. <br><br>
[If I remember correctly, the IRP's own rules/procedures have to be
approved by the Community - is that right? If not, it should be -
that's a better way to protect against ill-advised IRP
procedures/processes than having us try to spell them out in advance,
imo.<br><br>
David<br><br>
At 05:08 PM 7/27/2015, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">The IRP can determine whether a
limitation period bars an IRP, but they need to be applying some defined
period, and this period needs to be consistent for all
complainants.<br><br>
If there is no time period (or formula for arriving at a time period) for
IRPs stated in the bylaws (or in the rules and procedures, if we want to
punt a little bit), no IRP will be barred. There would be no basis
for a bar. Instead, it will be available to a complainant for all
time.<br>
<br>
I don't think that sounds good to me.<br><br>
Greg<br><br>
On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 4:57 PM, Malcolm Hutty
<<a href="mailto:malcolm@linx.net">malcolm@linx.net</a>>
wrote:<br>
<dl><br><br>
<dd>On 27/07/2015 21:43, Burr, Becky wrote:<br>
<dd>> That seems sensible to me<br><br>
<dd>So do you intend to remove the existing limit, and specify that the
IRP<br>
<dd>can itself determine a reasonable time-bar?<br><br>
<dd>That seems quite a big piece of discretion to hand it: what it
decides<br>
<dd>will affect the way the IRP looks quite a lot.<br><br>
<dd>For my part, whatever the time limit should be, it is very
important<br>
<dd>that the clock only start ticking when the applicant has
experiencd<br>
<dd>whatever it is they wish to complain about, or is aware that they
are<br>
<dd>likely to experience it. The present approach - starting the clock
when<br>
<dd>the Board takes its decision - is no longer fit for purpose. It
was<br>
<dd>designed for when IRP cases were effectively limited to contracted
parties.<br><br>
<dd>We do not want our time limit to effectively debar
non-contracted<br>
<dd>parties who know nothing about ICANN from ever bringing a
complaint.<br><br>
<dd>I think this should be specified in the Bylaws.<br><br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> J. Beckwith Burr<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy
Officer<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932">+
1.202.533.2932</a> Mobile:<br>
<dd>> <a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367">+1.202.352.6367</a> /
<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a><br>
<dd>>
<<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" eudora="autourl">
mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>> /
<a href="http://www.neustar.biz">www.neustar.biz</a><br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> From: David Post
<<a href="mailto:david.g.post@gmail.com">david.g.post@gmail.com</a>
<<a href="mailto:david.g.post@gmail.com" eudora="autourl">
mailto:david.g.post@gmail.com</a>>><br>
<dd>> Date: Monday, July 27, 2015 at 4:28 PM<br>
<dd>> To: Becky Burr
<<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>
<<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" eudora="autourl">
mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>>><br>
<dd>> Cc: Bruce Tonkin
<<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au">
Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a><br>
<dd>>
<<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" eudora="autourl">
mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a>>>,
"<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org">WP2@icann.org</a><br>
<dd>>
<<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:WP2@icann.org</a>>"
<<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org">WP2@icann.org</a>
<<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:WP2@icann.org</a>>><br>
<dd>> Subject: Re: [WP2] current state of IRP checklist plus sample
bylaws<br>
<dd>> language and the comment summary<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> Isn't this something that we could leave for the IRP itself to
deal with<br>
<dd>> in its processes/procedures? Why do we have to specify a
limitations<br>
<dd>> period in advance?<br>
<dd>> David<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> At 12:42 PM 7/25/2015, Burr, Becky wrote:<br>
<dd>>> Content-Language: en-US<br>
<dd>>> Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
<dd>>>
boundary="_000_D1D9347138C0Ebeckyburrneustarbiz_"<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> The more I think about this 30 day thing, the more concerned
I get <br>
<dd>>> we need to provide for tolling the period for the pre filing
mediation/CEP<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> J. Beckwith Burr<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> *Neustar, Inc. /* Deputy General Counsel and Chief Privacy
Officer<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> 1775 Pennsylvania Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20006<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> Office: <a href="tel:%2B%201.202.533.2932">+
1.202.533.2932</a> Mobile:
<a href="tel:%2B1.202.352.6367">+1.202.352.6367</a> /<br>
<dd>>>
<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz">becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>
<<a href="mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz" eudora="autourl">
mailto:becky.burr@neustar.biz</a>> /<br>
<dd>>> <a href="http://www.neustar.biz">www.neustar.biz</a>
<<a href="http://www.neustar.biz/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.neustar.biz/</a>><br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> From: Bruce Tonkin
<<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au">
Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a><br>
<dd>>>
<<a href="mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au" eudora="autourl">
mailto:Bruce.Tonkin@melbourneit.com.au</a>>><br>
<dd>>> Date: Saturday, July 25, 2015 at 3:31 AM<br>
<dd>>> To: "<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org">WP2@icann.org</a>
<<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:WP2@icann.org</a>>"
<<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org">WP2@icann.org</a><br>
<dd>>>
<<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:WP2@icann.org</a>>><br>
<dd>>> Subject: Re: [WP2] current state of IRP checklist plus
sample bylaws<br>
<dd>>> language and the comment summary<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> Hello Becky,<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> The proposed bylaws language change with respect to the
timing of an<br>
<dd>>> IRP proceeding:<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> “A request for A request for independent review must be
filed within<br>
<dd>>> thirty days of the posting<br>
<dd>>> of the minutes of the Board meeting (and the accompanying
Board Briefing<br>
<dd>>> Materials, if available) thatthe requesting party becoming
aware of<br>
<dd>>> the action<br>
<dd>>> that it contends demonstrates that ICANN violated its Bylaws
or<br>
<dd>>> Articles of<br>
<dd>>> Incorporation. Consolidated requests may be appropriate when
the causal<br>
<dd>>> connection between the circumstances of the requests and the
harm is<br>
<dd>>> the same<br>
<dd>>> for each of the requesting parties.”<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> How would you determine when a “requesting party”
becomes aware of an<br>
<dd>>> action? I expect it would be hard to
determine when that event<br>
<dd>>> would happen so this feels a little like that a party caan
file at<br>
<dd>>> any time after a decision potentially years
later. This could<br>
<dd>>> have quite negative effect on a third party. E.g if
a new gTLD was<br>
<dd>>> allocated to an applicant, and then the requesting party
complains<br>
<dd>>> years later.<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> Shouldn’t there be some limit based on what is reasonable
e.g 30<br>
<dd>>> days after the requesting party would reasonably become
aware … etc<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> Alternatively maybe leave the current language and
increease the time<br>
<dd>>> period e.g. from 30 to 60 or 90 days.<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> Regards,<br>
<dd>>> Bruce Tonkin<br>
<dd>>><br>
<dd>>> _______________________________________________<br>
<dd>>> WP2 mailing list<br>
<dd>>> <a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org">WP2@icann.org</a>
<<a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org" eudora="autourl">
mailto:WP2@icann.org</a>><br>
<dd>>>
<a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/wp2">
https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/wp2</a><br>
<dd>>>
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><br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> *******************************<br>
<dd>> David G Post - Senior Fellow, Open Technology Institute/New
America<br>
<dd>> Foundation<br>
<dd>> blog (Volokh Conspiracy)
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post">
http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post</a><br>
<dd>>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.washingtonpost.com_people_david-2Dpost&d=AwMFAw&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=KHtNBFAfs2Wsc0WBFs8uEwqFYvujsUnnN7VF0NWZxXM&s=xaEAsKtTS7zpk7-yKBnscwHrcrjC9EVm7Oh262_h49M&e=" eudora="autourl">
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>book<br>
<dd>> (Jefferson's Moose)
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n">http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n</a><br>
<dd>>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tinyurl.com_c327w2n-25A0-25A0-25A0-25A0-25A0-25A0-25A0&d=AwMFAw&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=KHtNBFAfs2Wsc0WBFs8uEwqFYvujsUnnN7VF0NWZxXM&s=uM7352AWlE5xVa8yoG0L-5mdpe1x-SSRtiX76IYGO50&e=" eudora="autourl">
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><br>
<dd>> music
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/davidpostmusic">
http://tinyurl.com/davidpostmusic</a><br>
<dd>>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__tinyurl.com_davidpostmusic-25A0&d=AwMFAw&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=KHtNBFAfs2Wsc0WBFs8uEwqFYvujsUnnN7VF0NWZxXM&s=-hz2E2fMrdSb7NY0HOElRP-1Pij5y19kvB47QkcD5J4&e=" eudora="autourl">
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>publications<br>
<dd>> etc.
<a href="http://www.davidpost.com">http://www.davidpost.com</a><br>
<dd>>
<<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.davidpost.com-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0-25C2-25A0_&d=AwMFAw&c=MOptNlVtIETeDALC_lULrw&r=62cJFOifzm6X_GRlaq8Mo8TjDmrxdYahOP8WDDkMr4k&m=KHtNBFAfs2Wsc0WBFs8uEwqFYvujsUnnN7VF0NWZxXM&s=Orueb-zlDxfxaAOPf-NA3gwoi716R30h9Po7O6LtYEY&e=" eudora="autourl">
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><br>
<dd>> *******************************<br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>><br>
<dd>> _______________________________________________<br>
<dd>> WP2 mailing list<br>
<dd>> <a href="mailto:WP2@icann.org">WP2@icann.org</a><br>
<dd>>
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https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/wp2</a><br>
<dd>><br><br>
<dd>--<br>
<dd> Malcolm Hutty | tel:
<a href="tel:%2B44%2020%207645%203523">+44 20 7645 3523</a><br>
<dd> Head of Public Affairs | Read the LINX Public Affairs
blog<br>
<dd> London Internet Exchange |
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http://publicaffairs.linx.net/</a><br><br>
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https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/wp2</a><br><br>
</dl></blockquote><br>
*******************************<br>
David G Post - Senior Fellow, Open Technology Institute/New America
Foundation<br>
blog (Volokh Conspiracy)
<a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post" eudora="autourl">
http://www.washingtonpost.com/people/david-post<br>
</a>book (Jefferson's Moose)
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0%A0" eudora="autourl">
http://tinyurl.com/c327w2n </a> <br>
music
<a href="http://tinyurl.com/davidpostmusic%A0" eudora="autourl">
http://tinyurl.com/davidpostmusic </a> publications etc.
<a href="http://www.davidpost.com/" eudora="autourl">
http://www.davidpost.com
</a> <br>
******************************* </body>
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