<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I am a big fan of Google Docs for collaborative drafting. I think the model you (Avri) espouse is the one I prefer (but which does require the editors to have edit and suggest rights, which is what I was getting at). I think it's only top down-ish if one person holds the edit rights and also acts in a top-down manner (we have had very good experience with the various "pen-holders" in this group, so I am far from suggesting that being the sole editor is top down per se; it's just a little less fluid than having a few editors operating as you suggest). Even if I'm the/an editor on a collaborative doc, I would always make changes in suggest mode so they can be seen by other collaborators. The only exception might be clean up (spacing, punctuation, not word editing), in which case I would still express my intention to do so, collaborative guy that I am.</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 3:01 PM, Avri Doria <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<br>
<br>
while it can become top down, it does not need to.<br>
<br>
First you can have several editors who take a commitment to be neutral<br>
in accepting the suggestions/comments of others and who never accept<br>
their own substantive edits and who committ to put in the edits of<br>
people who cannot access the drive tools for whatever reasons.<br>
<br>
Suggested edits also allow for commentary and discussion in the<br>
document. Editors can send out snapshots on a periodic basis in group<br>
where not everyone can access the drive document.<br>
<br>
And then you can do what Leon did as chair of the mtg the other day and<br>
talk about each edit before accepting it during the meeting..<br>
<br>
There may be better way to do BUMP (Bottom Up Multistakeholdder<br>
Process) collaborative editing, but I have not yet discovered it.<br>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
avri<br>
</font></span><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
On 15-Jul-15 14:18, Seun Ojedeji wrote:<br>
> Well, i will not market google beyond normal, but I don't think the<br>
> "comment/suggest" mode is that top down as you seem to believe. The<br>
> ability to have your edits marked/tagged so someone see your edits and<br>
> either disagree/agree (or further improve upon it) seem like a huge<br>
> bottom-up feature to me.<br>
><br>
> Overall its a matter of preference and not only about the idiotic<br>
> level of the users collaborating. ;-)<br>
><br>
> Regards<br>
><br>
> On 7/15/15, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> I don't think there's a "better approach."<br>
>><br>
>> I would say the simpler and more controlling approach is to only give<br>
>> "comment/suggest" rights and to retain "edit" rights to the "facilitator".<br>
>> This avoids mistakes by others, but also takes away a lot of flexibility in<br>
>> the process. This approach is more "idiot-proof" and probably better in a<br>
>> larger group, but it's also more "top down."<br>
>><br>
>> There are advantages to giving others edit rights, as long as there is a<br>
>> clear understanding of when to use them, and how not to abuse them (even<br>
>> accidentally). This allows control of the document to be taken by others<br>
>> when the facilitator is unavailable or if a contributor wants to clean-up<br>
>> the document. This also allows the facilitator to make suggestions on<br>
>> parts primarily drafted by others, and for those others to act as editor<br>
>> and accept those changes. This approach is better in a smaller group, and<br>
>> it's more "bottom up" or egalitarian. It does take a little more education<br>
>> (5 minutes, max) and a little more care to note which mode you are in.<br>
>> But, since it's less "idiot-proof," I guess you have to ask yourself who<br>
>> you are working with on any given project to decide which one to choose.<br>
>> :-)<br>
>><br>
>> Greg<br>
>><br>
>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>>> Yeah that's correct Greg but again many go to edit straight up without<br>
>>> looking at changing the modes. As Avri already hinted, the better<br>
>>> approach<br>
>>> to avoid any possible mistake is using the "anyone with url can comment"<br>
>>><br>
>>> Cheers!<br>
>>> Sent from Google nexus 4<br>
>>> kindly excuse brevity and typos.<br>
>>> On 14 Jul 2015 3:25 pm, "Greg Shatan" <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> If one has "edit" rights on a document, one can change their mode to<br>
>>>> "suggest" (aka redline) in the upper right hand corner dropdown menu.<br>
>>>> When<br>
>>>> collaborating, it is best if all changes are entered in "suggest" mode<br>
>>>> (which also generates a marginal tag) or by making comments (which only<br>
>>>> generates a marginal box, but does not do anything to the text).<br>
>>>> Suggestions can then be accepted in "edit" mode by the person<br>
>>>> controlling<br>
>>>> the document.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 14, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Avri Doria <<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org">avri@acm.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>>> hi,<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> under file you shoul see show previous versions.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> I did nothing to remove your edits. the only changes i made where some<br>
>>>>> formating. permats that replace my marks with yours. And content i<br>
>>>>> changed i did in suggest mode, that is why they are so visible.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> One thing about setting them up, it is much better to give every one<br>
>>>>> with the URL comment ability instead of edit. that way all the edits<br>
>>>>> remian visible until accepted by the lead editor.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> i would have changed that for you, but thought it a bit too<br>
>>>>> presumptuous.<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> avri<br>
>>>>><br>
>>>>> On 14-Jul-15 09:26, Jeff Neuman wrote:<br>
>>>>>> Thanks. When I read your version, the redlines now appear as non-red<br>
>>>>> and<br>
>>>>>> the comments I put in are gone. Any way to see a version with both<br>
>>>>>> of<br>
>>>>> our<br>
>>>>>> changes in there?<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Jeffrey J. Neuman<br>
>>>>>> Senior Vice President |Valideus USA | Com Laude USA<br>
>>>>>> 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600<br>
>>>>>> Mclean, VA 22102, United States<br>
>>>>>> E: <a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@valideus.com">jeff.neuman@valideus.com</a> or <a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a><br>
>>>>>> T: <a href="tel:%2B1.703.635.7514" value="+17036357514">+1.703.635.7514</a><br>
>>>>>> M: <a href="tel:%2B1.202.549.5079" value="+12025495079">+1.202.549.5079</a><br>
>>>>>> @Jintlaw<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----<br>
>>>>>> From: <a href="mailto:wp3-bounces@icann.org">wp3-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:wp3-bounces@icann.org">wp3-bounces@icann.org</a>] On Behalf<br>
>>>>> Of Avri<br>
>>>>>> Doria<br>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 14, 2015 9:01 AM<br>
>>>>>> To: <a href="mailto:wp3@icann.org">wp3@icann.org</a><br>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Wp3] Changes last night to Google Docs<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Hi,<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> Thanks.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> I just made some edits to the doc.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> the ones that were cosmetic I just did as edits.<br>
>>>>>> In a few places I suggested addiitonal text. These I did as<br>
>>>>> suggestions and<br>
>>>>>> thus they will need to be approved by the person holding the pen or<br>
>>>>> someone.<br>
>>>>>> thanks for ground work.<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> avri<br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>><br>
>>>>>> On 14-Jul-15 08:31, Jeff Neuman wrote:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> All,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> I made some edits to the google doc version of the Staff<br>
>>>>>>> Accountability section last night, but not the word doc or pdf. I<br>
>>>>>>> will be happy to discuss the changes today, but I just wanted to<br>
>>>>>>> make<br>
>>>>>>> sure you can all see it. The link is at:<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UZG8Dye8W2trulcK_54XshBFT2fDK7-eyKlmi1gY" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UZG8Dye8W2trulcK_54XshBFT2fDK7-eyKlmi1gY</a><br>
>>>>>> nLM/edit.<br>
>>>>>>> I tried to make all of my changes red.<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Best regards,<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> *Jeffrey J. Neuman*<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> *Senior Vice President *|*Valideus USA***| *Com Laude USA*<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> 1751 Pinnacle Drive, Suite 600<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> Mclean, VA 22102, United States<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> E: _<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@valideus.com">jeff.neuman@valideus.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@valideus.com">jeff.neuman@valideus.com</a>>_or<br>
>>>>>>> _<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:jeff.neuman@comlaude.com">jeff.neuman@comlaude.com</a>>_<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> T: <a href="tel:%2B1.703.635.7514" value="+17036357514">+1.703.635.7514</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> M: <a href="tel:%2B1.202.549.5079" value="+12025495079">+1.202.549.5079</a><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>> @Jintlaw<br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
>>>>>>><br>
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