[Wp4] Fwd: Re: [] Variety of formulation for Human Rights bylaw that were made. - corrected

[Seun Ojedeji]

I like to add my +1 to Greg on this one; Committing to a general HR
statement that is not clearly scored/defined could be dangerous, especially
as we would not like any major change to be done on anything that has been
agreed upon in WS1

Regards
On 6 Aug 2015 7:28 pm, "Greg Shatan" <gregshatanipc at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think we need to do more than just wordsmith a simple statement if its
> going to be a part of ICANN's core values in the ICANN bylaws.  The bylaws
> provision is just the tip of the iceberg.  We need to have a common
> understanding of what we mean and what existing human rights standards
> (declarations, conventions, etc.) we are referring to, and we need to have
> a sense of the consequences (intended and otherwise) of our efforts.  Some
> of us may have spent many years and many hours working with and getting to
> understand the human rights landscape; others have not.  Some of us may say
> we know what we mean when we refer to human rights.  That's not enough.  We
> all need to know what we mean, and we need to know that we mean basically
> the same thing.  This doesn't have to be exhaustive (or exhausting).
>
> There's certain a lot of work that can be put into WS2, in terms of
> fleshing things out, considering issues such as impacts assessments,
> reviews, etc.  But we can't just stop with a statement and leave its
> meaning for WS2.  Otherwise, we are just buying a pig in a poke.*
>
> Greg
> ________
> * Recognizing this is a somewhat culturally specific term, I offer a brief
> explanation. "Poke" is an archaic term for a bag, the advice literally
> being given is 'don't buy a pig until you have seen it.'  Per Wikipedia, "The
> phrase can also be applied to accepting an idea or plan without a full
> understanding of its basis."  In the English language, this can be traced
> back to at least 1530:
>
> *Fraser's Magazine,* 1858, reprinted a piece from Richard Hill's (or
>> Hilles') *Common-place Book*, 1530, which gave this advice to market
>> traders:
>> "When ye proffer the pigge open the poke."
>> http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-pig-in-a-poke.html
>
>
> NB:  This is apparently not the same Richard Hill dealt with from time to
> time in these and other lists. It is presumably a complete coincidence that
> the said Mr. Hill's organization is called APIG.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2015 at 1:32 PM, Dr Eberhard Lisse <el at lisse.na> wrote:
>
>> Avri,
>>
>> I am in full agreement with you.
>>
>> We need something we can all live with in WS1 and can sort out the
>> casualties in WS2, if any.
>>
>> el
>>
>> On 2015-08-06 17:40, Avri Doria wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > In this case I think there may be a number of solutions that are
>> > right, especially when we remember all we are trying to do for WS1
>> > is to record a bylaws commitment to respect human rights in the
>> > work ICANN does.  We are not trying to solve all the complex of
>> > issues that we may want too bring up.  We need to find a way to
>> > just pick one.
>> >
>> > I really think trying to wordsmith as simple a statement as
>> > possible is still out best alternative.
>> >
>> > Though I can think of no better reason to miss our deadlines than
>> > a discussion of ICANN's Corporate responsibility to respect human
>> > rights, something I think I could work on forever, it would be
>> > nice if we didn't miss the deadline because of the discussion.
>> > But if we do miss the deadline, that's life.  We have seen that
>> > the sky does not fall when a deadline is missed.  And this is
>> > important.
>> >
>> > avri
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 06-Aug-15 09:25, Dr Eberhard W Lisse wrote:
>> >> Avri,
>> >>
>> >> we need to get this right.
>> >>
>> >> We are not going to let the outcome dictated by arbitrary and
>> >> self imposed time frames.
>> >>
>> >> el
>> [...]
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>
>
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