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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Hello all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The notes, recordings and transcripts for CCWG Accountability WS2 <b>Diversity Subgroup Meeting #13</b> – 24 February 2017 will be available here: <a href="https://community.icann.org/x/y5zRAw">https://community.icann.org/x/y5zRAw</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">A copy of the notes may be found below. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank you.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1D1D1D">With kind regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D1D1D">B</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1D1D1D">renda
</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1D1D1D">B</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1D1D1D">rewer,</span></i></b><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1D1D1D"> Projects & Operations Assistant <o:p></o:p></span></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1D1D1D">Multistakeholder Strategy & Strategic Initiatives (MSSI)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-autospace:none"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1D1D1D">Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0in"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1D1D1D"><img border="0" width="61" height="61" id="_x0000_i1025" src="cid:image001.png@01D28E89.50363800" alt="id:image001.png@01D28DF5.EF27C2B0"></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Notes (including relevant portions of chat):<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">15 Participants at start of call<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">1. Roll Call</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">2. Review of Actions items</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - resend of questionnaire was not sent but it has been updated. Would look for approval on the list before Copenhagen. Report from Chris Gift was distributed to the list - this will be discussed
at a later meeting whe CG is available.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt">3. Review of Draft Report: - Issues list</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak: ""2.6 Skills: Diversity in skills contributes to the quality of ICANN policy formulation, decision-making and outreach. It is important to highlight and advocate the advantages of individuals
bringing different and diverse skills sets into ICANN's many activities. All activities and groups within ICANN will benefit from having a diverse range of skills available. Outcomes formulated from diverse skills and knowledge will have higher probability
of being accepted by a diverse community. Achieving diversity in skills should not be seen as a choice between skills and diversity which excludes participation, but rather one which values many skills sets and facilitates inclusion and broad participation.
""<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - review of SKILLS discussion. Let us try and agree on text today.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sebastien Bachollet - I would like to express the reverse of some of the opinions. As I have stated skills you can always learn - diversity you cannot change a person.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rachel Pollack: The current wording seems much better to me. Building on what Sebastien said, perhaps the text could add an element related to the need for capacity building to further develop skills<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Fiona Asonga - Diversity of skills can be looked from different angles - can also mean that there is a mix of those that have skills with those that have less - those with a lack of skill will have an impact
on discussions and decisions - so for me it is about ensuring there is a balance. We have to include the will and capacity to learn as part of the skill equation - need balance.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - Like evaluating candidates for a job - you do not always get people with everything - need diversity to avoid group-think.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro - Will note strongly disagree with the idea that there is no opposition between skills and diversity. If we do not redouble efforts on diversity until there is some balance is achieved
- otherwise we will keep to what is now - this is not acceptable.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Julie Hammer - Want to clarify - people seem to think that this para is a standalone element of diversity - it is not - this is just one of the components of the entire report - this skill discussion is a
part of the entire report.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mathieu Weill: +1 Julie, let's not get carried away.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - Agree with JH we should not make too much of this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sebastien Bachollet - I prefer a group with more diverstiy and less skills vs a highly skilled group with less diversity.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: Agree w/ Sebastien<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">mal Al-saqqaf: The nature of the position decides whether a specific skill is required or it's better to have diverse skills.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Julie Hammer (SSAC): Sebastien, it is not about diversity OR skill, it is about diversity of skills. Everybody has some skills!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: Julie, however, those who do get hired/selected do not represent diversity<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: The stats are on the document itself<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: no amount of capacity training will give me the POV of an African.and thus i will never be able to bring the type of skill someone frm that region can bring.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sebastien Bachollet - its not just a question of diversity - its about diversity of POV is critical.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: I agree it's not about any regional or aspect of diversity specific versus skill.. Yes, the POV is just not taken into account<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: and skill & experience ate dependent on POV.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mathieu Weill: We're still missing clarity on what we mean by skills. Tech skills ? Legal skills ? Which ones ? Negotiation skills, Reading & speaking English ? Project management skills ?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: yes all of those and any other skill that may be discovered as needed some day in the future.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Mathieu Weill: I agree with Avri that Point of View diversity is as required as skill<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: all of those and the disproportional value they are given to some privileged groups<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - Example of Board requirements from the NomComm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro - We really need to focus on diversity or nothing will ever happen.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: trying to sum up what I've said for notes: when one thinks about high-level selection, there's a high value given to centennial universities on the resumé or dot-com experiences, some
people who meet the diversity criteria will not have that but bring other things and can be even better with the opportunity for capacity building<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: and yes Rafik you summed up well too<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Julie Hammer - At this point in the report we are simply trying to explain what we mean for these various elements - and we are not trying to say what the situation is or should be - we are simply trying to
explain what it is as a group we understand the term to mean - it is for later in the report whre we should be evaluating what it actually those elements of diversity mean in each of the elements of ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Amal Al-saqqaf: +1 Julie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - So JH is saying we can define things here and there is room later on for recommendations on all aspects including skills.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Julie Hammer (SSAC): Yes, that's correct!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">FIONA ASONGA: +1 Julie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sebastien Bachollet - Skills are just one of the 7 types of diversity and all have to be taken into account.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: Achieving diversity in skills should not be seen as a choice between skills and diversity which excludes participation, but rather one which values many skills sets and facilitates inclusion
and broad participation. ""<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: last phrase of the paragraph<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Julie Hammer (SSAC): - That was not the intended meaning! If it is read in context of the report that it would not suggest that meaning.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): that makes sense to me Julie<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - Following up on SB we may need to add text to state that all elements of diversity have to be considered vs putting too much weight on this para?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: yes, make that a binding clause or yes, isolated, this wipes out the other efforts<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - seems to be support to include text proposed by JH so I will include both in the document and I will add at the end of the section the need to consider all the elements. maybe SB will provide
some chapeau text for this section as he proposed.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lousewies van der Laan: A chapeau is a great idea - its used in treaties and helps get everyone on the same page<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: Yes<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: the text has this added phrase "If an original assessment of candidates is not sufficiently diverse to fulfill the skill, experience and diversity requirements necessary, then efforts
need to be redoubled until diversity is achieved. Among those efforts, strengthening capacity building mechanisms for the skills required."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - let us move this to the list this way and hopefully we can reach consensus on this point. (no objection). Any other elements to discuss? There has been some mention of ANTI-DISCRIMINATION any
thoughts about this given there are already some rules about this in ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Lousewies van der Laan - talking about what the grounds are for considering discrimination? (yes). If you start making a list it has to be very inclusive but there is a risk you will miss something - a more
general statement can be more useful - we should decide what we want to do with this. Maybe we should go beyond DISCRIMINATION and move more towards other things such as being welcoming. We should list the DISCRIMINATION elements that are in ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - Good point LVDL.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): lists can be problematic IMO<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: well we can use the 'inter alia' construction i.e including by not limited to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): YES that helps if lists are essential...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Herb Waye Ombuds: well said Lousewies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: a comprehensive hite list is as hard to build as a bloack list. a comprehensive hite list is as hard to build as a black list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dalila Rahmouni: As written by Julie, non-discrimination and diversity are different.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">FIONA ASONGA: I think we are assuming that the diversity mechanism is for leadership. That is just one aspect of ICANN it is also for the community and staff. I think we need to bear that braod perspective
in mind<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): an affirmative approach is indeed my preference here as well... good points<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: I like the idea of referencing good practices, safe spaces too... Good practices should be highlighted<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: and the bylaws to not include a non discimantory policy other than Section 2.3. NON-DISCRIMINATORY TREATMENTICANN shall not apply its standards, policies, procedures, or practices inequitably or
single out any particular party for<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Fiona Asonga - we seem to be concentrating on diversity for leadership but our mandate is to look at diversity for all elements of ICANN.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak: thanks Avri, we can refer that in our document<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: so according to the bylaws discrimination is the service of competition seems ok.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Julie Hammer (SSAC): Fiona, that has always been my view, it is not just about leadership positions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dalila Rahmouni: Non-discrimination is part of Human Rights as Diversity a requirement<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: also in core values: v) Make decisions by applying documented policies consistently, neutrally, objectively, and fairly, without singling out any particular party for discriminatory treatment (i.e.,
making an unjustified prejudicial distinction between or among different parties); and<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">lousewies: I agree Fiona ! well said<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Cheryl Langdon-Orr (CLO): yes indeed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: the equal employment policy is very vanilla and a std doc for incororated entities.<a href="https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4C745NEsGNqd3N1ZXl0dVpVX2s">https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B4C745NEsGNqd3N1ZXl0dVpVX2s</a>
the equal employment doc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro - status on office of diversity? Are we trying to develop a list of grounds for discrimination?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - It has been added to the document but we have not discussed it further. Additionally SB has sent a document about the Offices to the plenary list. Our document is open for comments and suggestions
- ask everyone to contribute to the document and on list. As to the list it seems that there is a preference to have a general statement vs a list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">avri doria: it should be accesible.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dalila Rahmouni: the proposal is the document page 8<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: yes about complaints and ombudsman offices etc<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Dalila Rahmouni: Yes, suggestions are welcomed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: ok thanks<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Renata Aquino Ribeiro: about LW points on discrimination what was the stand again?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Fiona Asonga - have noted the various comments and will integrate in the document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Rafik Dammak - thanks all and Adjourned.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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