[Ws2-hr] Notes, recordings, transcript for WS2 Human Resources Subgroup Meeting #2 - 23 August

Wed Aug 24 11:20:23 UTC 2016

Colleagues

I am sorry I could not make the most recent call.   I am afraid my 
father has had a very sudden health emergency and I had to fly to 
Brisbane from New York last weekend.  My time is preoccupied with with 
family and hospitals   I am sorry for the delay in letting you know.   I 
am still committed to getting my thoughts out to the group, but 
realistically I think that is going to be in 2 weeks time.

I am sorry for the inconvenience.

Best

Paul

On 8/23/16 8:54 PM, MSSI Secretariat wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> The notes, recordings and transcripts for CCWG Accountability WS2 
> *Human Resources Subgroup Meeting #2* – 23 August 2016 will be 
> available here: https://community.icann.org/x/DgKsAw
>
> A copy of the notes may be found below.
>
> Thank you.
>
> With kind regards,
>
> Brenda Brewer
>
> MSSI Projects & Operations Assistant
>
> ICANN**-**Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers
>
>
>       *Notes*
>
> 1. Administrivia
>
> 2. Discussion on: the Summary on what was agreed and discussed on human rights during WS1 [0]
>
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rwpw9aSAqboRO2_rNkjMVJPOmYwmdr5B1_M_aNMoZb4/edit?usp=sharing
>
> ·Tatiana and Greg walk through of the first Google document - Summary of WS1 (WP4) discussion on Human Rights 1st draft
>
> ·*Greg Shatan: 
> *ICANN will enforce their contracts -- but I don't believe there are requirements relating to human rights (beyond "applicable law' provisions).
>
> ·*Nigel: 
> *Disagree. Because human rights conventions are not applicable to ICANN as it's not a state actor
>
> ·*jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): 
> *as for the meaning and effect of article 4 about international law and HR: perhaps an analysis of IRP decisions (and maybe 
>
> other instances as well) could be warranted, in order to have a clear picture as to what extent HR (based on current article 4 of the Articles of Incorporation) have already been applied?
>
> ·*Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): 
> *Ruggie principles state that business (ie. ICANN) should "not contribute to" human rights abuses.  (See page 21.)  Of course for 
>
> some, this may conflict with what they see as their free speech rights.  For example, the Hague Criminal Court had testimony yesterday from the perpetrator of 
>
> crimes of destruction of cultural property in Mali.  This destruction resulted from ISIL occupation and its statement against the culture in Mali that it viewed as 
>
> heretical.  These videos are accessible on certain Internet sites.  If ICANN permits sites to be used to show destruction of cultural property - or in a more extreme 
>
> case, to permit authorized Internet urls to be used to display beheadings, is ICANN contributing to human rights violations and failing to respect Human Rights?
>
> ·*Niels ten Oever 2: 
> *Hi Anne - I think representation on an act and an act is a very different thing. 
>
>
> ·*Nigel: 
> *Moreover, respect for human rihghts involve a positive oblgation to carry out the balancing act between several rights that are engaged.
>
> ·*Nigel: *e.g. free expression versus right to property
>
> ·David McAuley: In WS1 we agreed to punt on enforcement.
>
> ·*Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): 
> *@Niels -I am not sure what you mean by "representation on an act".  But I agree that respecting Human Rights necessarily 
>
> involves a balancing act.  It may also be case-by-case.
>
> ·*Tatiana Tropina: 
> *I think what we are discussing now is actually the FoI issues - and good that we have transcripts. I also would like to offer - anyone - 
>
> please - go to the concerns document, it still is in the drafting process (in its very inception) and do list your concerns .
>
> ·*Niels ten Oever 2: 
> *@Anne - Destruction of buildings is not by far the same as showing videos of destruction. On this topic, also see the Manilla Principles.
>
> ·Farzaneh Badii: enforcement question.
>
> ·Tatiana Tropina: Enforcement in this document is about external enforcement. Internal enforcement is a valid point for future discussion.
>
> ·Paul McGrady: Problem of defining Respect and it being punted to WS2. did this get into constituencies etc.
>
> ·Tatiana Tropina: It was more of a policy discussion and drawing border between Respect and Protection.
>
> ·*David McAuley: 
> *I recall the discussions around respect being about ICANN the organization rather than the commmunity.
>
> ·*Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC): 
> *Is providing in the Registry Agreement that ICANN can direct the Registry to takedown any website that is clearly demonstrated 
>
> or purposed toward Human Rights violations  (e.g. sex trafficing of minors website) a matter of "external enforcment" or a matter of action 
>
> taken to avoid contributing to Human Rights abuses?  If ICANN supports policies that prevent law enforcement from getting to the perpetrators, then those 
>
> policies would be contributing to Human Rights abuses.  Or does ICANN say, "not my problem - out of scope".  Good luck finding these people.  We think it's fine 
>
> if their location and contact information is  completely private.
>
> ·Kavouss Arasteh: meeting badly organized.
>
> ·David McAuley: We never really delved into respect neiter did we go beyond ICANN the organization.
>
> ·Greg Shatan: There was some discussion of Respect in WS1.
>
> ·Niels Ten Oever: One more week to work on the document. (Several green Ticks and no comments).. Everyone is invited to contribute tot he document.
>
> 3. Discussion on: Concerns on possible impacts of Human Rights bylaw and FoI [1]
>
> ·Niels Ten Oever: Paul Twomey is not on this call and will ask him and TT to work on this document over the coming week. I would also invite everyone to contribute to this if they have input.
>
> ·Kavouss 
> Arasteh: general disagreement with process and activities. NTO: explanation of process.
>
> ·Ron da Silva: Board Concerns? These were well captured in the document. Unaware of any additional concerns vs those from WS1.
>
> ·*Jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): CHAT - 
> *apart from concerns that the HR commitment would go "too far", we should also be careful in not weakening 
>
> the current level of commitment according especially to article IV of the AoI
>
> ·*Anne Aikman-Scalese (IPC) CHAT: 
> *This was a concern I expressed earlier - being bound to Article 4 without a Framework of Interpretation.
>
> ·*jorge cancio (GAC Switzerland): 
> *I would see that analysis  (of the current level of commitment under current AoI and Bylaws) either as a staff supported 
>
> endeavour or as a collective effort... not sure whether Lee could cope with it - I'm a bit reluctant to speak on his behalf :-S
>
> ·Tijani Ben Jemaa: we have to go forward with our narrow mission of creating an FOI - we should not add to our scope.
>
> ·*Andrew Mack: 
> *here here Tijani.  less is more -- it will be challenge enough as a limited mandate
>
> ·*David McAuley: *Good reminder, thanks Tijani
>
> ·*Tatiana Tropina: 
> *We agreed during the WS1 that we can not say whether Art 4 of AoI creates the obligation because HR instruments are mostly for the states 
>
>
> ·Niels Ten Oever:  good point TBJ. I will draft a frame of this document to get us started next week.
>
> ·Kavouss Arasteh: Discussion of what is the FOI?
>
> ·Niels Ten Oever:  Annex 6 of the CCWG report describes this quite well and provides some examples.
>
> 4. Discussion on working tools of the Design Team (Wiki, mailinglist, Github, Google Docs, Etherpads, etc)
>
> ·Niels Ten Oever: Problems with Googledocs - the only tools for collaborative working on text is Etherpad and Googledocs. Googledocs has more functionality 
>
> so we will keep using it for now. If you have further comments on this please provide them on the list.
>
> ·Tijani Ben Jemaa: Let us use what ICANN provides so everyone can contribute. The Wiki works well.
>
> ·Niels Ten Oever: lets take this to the list.
>
> 5. AOB
>
> ·Niels Ten Oever: adjourned.
>
>
>
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-- 
Dr Paul Twomey
Managing Director
Argo P at cific

US Cell: +1 310 279 2366
Aust M: +61 416 238 501

www.argopacific.com

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