[Ws2-hr] [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: .cat

Thu Sep 21 18:47:05 UTC 2017

Hence the age-old question:  locate offices in jurisdictions that don’t protect free speech as an outreach?  Or stay out of those offices as an informal sanction?

Can .cat apply to the European Court of Human Rights with a claim against the Spanish government based on the European Convention on Human Rights?

It appears that many of their judgments are not enforced by national governments but it would still be good to get the judgment anyway, wouldn’t it?

Hard to see how ICANN could enforce a Human Rights violation by an EU government.   Squarely in the realm of the EU Court of HR I would think.

Anne

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From: ws2-hr-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ws2-hr-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Paul Rosenzweig
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 6:57 AM
To: 'Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira'; 'farzaneh badii'; 'Nigel Roberts'
Cc: 'ws2-jurisdiction'; ws2-hr at icann.org
Subject: Re: [Ws2-hr] [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: .cat

Actually, that’s wrong Thiago, but you know that.  The facts are that .cat has physical offices in Spain – hence its offices could be raided.  That is true irrespective of whether or not the .cat owners are corporate domiciled in Spain or in France or anywhere else in the world.  The same is true of ICANN’s offices in Turkey, which have not been raided by Turkish police and (we all fervently hope never will be).

While I join everyone in dismay at the action of the Spanish authorities they prove my point, as Nigel said.

Paul

Paul Rosenzweig
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From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 8:47 AM
To: 'farzaneh badii' <farzaneh.badii at gmail.com<mailto:farzaneh.badii at gmail.com>>; Nigel Roberts <nigel at channelisles.net<mailto:nigel at channelisles.net>>
Cc: ws2-jurisdiction <ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org>>; ws2-hr at icann.org<mailto:ws2-hr at icann.org>
Subject: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: [Ws2-hr] .cat

Dear all,

Farzaneh is right in disagreeing with Nigel.

The .CAT case only confirms that the territorial State, that is the State in which territory a legal entity is based (in this case the .CAT registry), is in the unique position to enforce its prescriptions against that legal entity.

Notice that the action of "raiding" the .CAT registry was undertaken by Spanish law enforcers, and only they could have undertaken it (at least until such time as Spain consents to foreign officials' exercising forceful actions within Spanish territory). In sum, the "police raid" by Spain happened because the .CAT registry, being located in Spain, was subject to the territorial jurisdiction of Spain, notably its exclusive enforcement jurisdiction.

In the case of ICANN, the lessons the .CAT case teaches us (as if anyone really needed this case to be convinced of the following) is that the United States, the country in whose territory ICANN is based (as well as where are located its DNS management activities), is in the unique position to enforce law prescriptions against ICANN, to enforce its sanctions regime against ICANN, to shutdown ICANN, to interfere with ICANN's DNS management activities. No other country is in a position to do so, and this should be remedied.

Best regards,

Thiago

De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org<mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org> [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org] Em nome de farzaneh badii
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 20 de setembro de 2017 08:51
Para: Nigel Roberts
Cc: ws2-jurisdiction; ws2-hr at icann.org<mailto:ws2-hr at icann.org>
Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] [Ws2-hr] .cat

Farzaneh

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 6:24 AM, Nigel Roberts <nigel at channelisles.net<mailto:nigel at channelisles.net>> wrote:

I think this all clearly proves Paul Rosenzweig's point that ICANN's jurisdiction is irrelevant as national police forces and judicial authorities can apply national law to particular registries.

Under the Treaty of Rome, incidentally, the .CAT registry has the complete right to move it's operations to any of the other 27 Member states (soon to be 26) of the Union.  If it did that, would ICANN itself then come in the firing line from the Spanish courts, perhaps?

I disagree. ICANN's jurisdiction is the most relevant when it comes to delegation-redelegation of ccTLDs and accreditation of regirars and approval of registries. This case does not prove the point that ICANN's jurisdiction is totally irrelenat under all circumstances. As we clearly demonstrated at the jurisdiction group.

On 20/09/17 09:58, Thomas Rickert wrote:
Hi all,
you might find this article interesting.

https://www.internetnews.me/2017/09/20/dotcat-registry-offices-raided-spanish-police/

Best,
Thomas
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