<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">You seem to assume that the Framework will deal with rights at the granular level. I don't think it needs to or should. The question is "What human rights is ICANN committed to respect?" I don't think the answer should be "Some of them."</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 1:50 PM, Daniel Appelman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:dappelman@mh-llp.com" target="_blank">dappelman@mh-llp.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Some human rights are obviously more applicable to ICANN than others. ICANN’s framework should focus on those in particular. If that’s “cherry-picking” then
I don’t understand how anyone could object to it. Why would the framework even bother with human rights that are inapplicable to ICANN’s mission and activities? It’s just not logical.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> <a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-hr-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 27, 2016 10:42 AM<span class=""><br>
<b>To:</b> Schweighofer Erich<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br>
</span><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-hr] Proposed agenda meeting September 27 - 19:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">A response on Erich's last point:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">WS2-HR should focus on the freedom of communication worldwide, subject to usual safeguard clauses + the international human rights treaty obligations.<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">This sounds suspiciously like "cherry-picking" (i.e., picking and choosing among human rights obligation), and I am firmly opposed to
that. Also while human rights treaty obligations are relevant (and we need to determine what we are referring to as such)</span><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""> they do not bind ICANN,
except to the extent they have been adopted and codified by applicable laws. The Bylaw doesn't take us further than that.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1f497d">It is not cherry-picking, it is a suggestion which human rights are relevant to be considered. Free communication should be the main concern.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1f497d">You are right that human rights treaties formally do not bind ICANN but that sound not good in practice. We have to substitute this by self-commitment, as we do now.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#9900ff">We've been using the term cherry-picking to mean just that -- picking and choosing, menu-style, from the list of human rights and deciding that some are going
to be considered and some won't. Whatever you call it, I'm opposed to it. I'm not opposed to choosing among human rights conventions and instruments; indeed, we must do that. But within, e.g., the UDHR, we should not be picking, we need to take it whole
as a document. The extent of ICANN's commitment to human rights is stated in the Bylaw, -- to
<u>respect</u> <u>internationally recognized human rights</u> <u>as required by applicable law</u>. This is critical in three ways: (1) ICANN's commitment is one of "respecting" (and not protecting or enforcing) human rights (and we need to define what "respect"
means in the context of ICANN, which unfortunately does not align with Ruggie's idea of respect for business enterprises); (2) ICANN must look to "internationally recognized human rights" -- no more and no less; and (3) ICANN's commitment is limited to what
is "required by applicable law." ICANN could go further of course (e.g., it could ensure there are gluten free food options at every ICANN meeting and event), but that is not a Bylaws issue and thus not a Framework of Interpretation issue.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:#9900ff">Greg</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 12:14 PM, Schweighofer Erich <<a href="mailto:erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.at" target="_blank">erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.<wbr>at</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">My clarifications „inline“. Sorry for quick drafting and being unclear.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Erich Schweighofer</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Greg
Shatan [mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.<wbr>com</a>]
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<b>Gesendet:</b> D</span><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">ienstag, 27. September 2016 17:35<br>
<b>An:</b> Schweighofer Erich<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Niels ten Oever; <a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ws2-hr] Proposed agenda meeting September 27 - 19:00 UTC</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I agree in part and disagree in part:</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 6:05 AM, Schweighofer Erich <<a href="mailto:erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.at" target="_blank">erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.<wbr>at</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">...</span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">The more I read about Ruggie Principles I am convinced that they do not really fit for ICANN.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I tend to agree with this.</span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">The hard legal core of ICANN's obligations is much less, even depending on the various jurisdictions.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'm not sure what this means. If it means that
there are Ruggie obligations that don't fit ICANN, then I agree. Otherwise, this needs further explanation.</span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Yes – Ruggie do not fit properly. ICANN is essential for a global communication platform
and must respect related human rights –the “hard core”, subject to the interpretation in the various jurisdictions.
</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">ICANN is inclusive, e.g. also flexible.
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Again not sure what this means. If this means
that ICANN must be inclusive of, e.g., New gTLD applicants and ccTLD operators (governments and otherwise), whether or not they comply with human rights provision, then I agree. ICANN can't be a human rights filter for the Internet. If this means something
else, it needs further explanation. </span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">It means that we cannot oblige new gTLD applicants or ccTLD operators to comply with
human rights above the national interpretation of human rights obligations. There are other fora to discuss compliance with human rights standards.</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">WS2-HR should focus on the freedom of communication worldwide, subject to usual safeguard clauses + the international human rights treaty obligations.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">This sounds suspiciously like "cherry-picking"
(i.e., picking and choosing among human rights obligation), and I am firmly opposed to that. Also while human rights treaty obligations are relevant (and we need to determine what we are referring to as such)</span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
they do not bind ICANN, except to the extent they have been adopted and codified by applicable laws. The Bylaw doesn't take us further than that.</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1f497d">It is not cherry-picking, it is a suggestion which human rights are relevant to be considered. Free communication should be the main concern.</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#1f497d">You are right that human rights treaties formally do not bind ICANN but that sound not good in practice. We have to substitute this by self-commitment,
as we do now. </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">In an ethical code of ICANN, we can go much further, and here we can re-use Ruggie to some extent.
</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"> </span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">An "ethical code of ICANN"</span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">
is far, far beyond the mandate and scope of this subgroup. Our task is to provide a framework for interpreting the Bylaw.</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">It is good to work on an idealistic world but we have to realistic, too.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">That I can agree with.</span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span lang="DE-AT">Best, Erich Schweighofer<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Greg</span><span lang="DE-AT" style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""></span><span lang="DE-AT"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT"><br>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>
Von: <a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-hr-bounces@icann.<wbr>org</a>] Im Auftrag von Niels ten Oever<br>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 27. September 2016 11:18<br>
An: <a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br>
Betreff: [Ws2-hr] Proposed agenda meeting September 27 - 19:00 UTC<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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Dear all,<br>
<br>
Please find underneath and attached the proposed agenda for the call of September 27, 19:00 UTC.<br>
<br>
Comments and suggestions are welcome.<br>
<br>
1. Administrivia<br>
Roll call, absentees, SoIs, etc<br>
2. Analysis of Ruggie Principles for ICANN - discussion on UN Guiding Principles 15, 13, 19 3. AOB<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Niels<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
Niels ten Oever<br>
Head of Digital<br>
<br>
Article 19<br>
<a href="http://www.article19.org" target="_blank">www.article19.org</a><br>
<br>
PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4<br>
678B 08B5 A0F2 636D 68E9<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-AT">______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
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