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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jorge,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I agree with you and in fact it appears to me that ICANN Legal has responded that this HR commitment carries a good deal of weight. At present, we are very
far from a “fact-based approach”. I have been trying to get the subteam to focus on actual activities of ICANN and Paul McGrady has been trying to get the subteam to focus on the obligations that concern “applicable law”. In both cases, to little avail.
This is unfortunate because it causes us to lose time. However, forcing Ruggie Principles language into the draft FOI is not a substitute for the fact-based approach you describe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The language inserted by Niels is definitely not agreed – as can be readily seen from the list.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Anne<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch [mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 04, 2016 12:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Aikman-Scalese, Anne; gregshatanipc@gmail.com<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ws2-hr@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> AW: [Ws2-hr] New Draft Text for FoI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Anne<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My comment was triggered by the partial quotation of one of my comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As I said from the start: let’s analyze the UNGP one by one. So far I feel we are just starting and we may well benefit also from the opinion of experts in
interpreting what they actually mean at the practical level. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Personally I have the impression that we still are far from a fact-based approach and to reckon the flexibilities inbuilt in those principles, which are further
strengthened by the “core value” nature of the HR commitment and the strong Mission definition we have in the Bylaws.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jorge
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Aikman-Scalese, Anne [<a href="mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com">mailto:AAikman@lrrc.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 4. Oktober 2016 20:55<br>
<b>An:</b> Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>>;
<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> RE: [Ws2-hr] New Draft Text for FoI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jorge,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">While I can appreciate your position and approach, I note that Greg’s comment is actually forced by the language that has been prematurely inserted into the
draft FOI. This was done in the name of “capturing our work” but several have pointed out that it does not actually do so since our work thus far was not at all in the nature of adopting the items that have been added to the draft.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">So in terms of being constructive, we really must take a step back from forced interpretations found in the proposed FOI text. Perhaps we simply go back to
the prior draft as we continue to discuss the principles. That would, in my opinion, be a constructive way forward. Since you initially proposed we merely discuss the Ruggie Principles and their possible applicability, I hope that you would agree to this.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As noted on the list, there are many who are not at all in agreement with the text inserted in the draft FOI.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Anne<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#AF272F">Anne E. Aikman-Scalese</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org">ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 04, 2016 11:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-hr] New Draft Text for FoI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I would suggest that we continue on a constructive path. My comment (quoted partially in your email) is intended to highlight that our common ground up to now
is to analyze the UNGP on a case by case basis – and logically their usefulness would be determined by the fact that we had problems or not – and if so to what extent etc.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Any assumption beyond that, both the one you infer from that partial quote as the one you are furthering from the very beginning of these discussions has not
received any consensus or agreement within this group that I am aware of.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Therefore, let’s go back to work, let’s not try to infer general assumptions, and let’s analyze what is useful and what is not from the UNGP, based on facts
and not on fears.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Jorge
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> Greg Shatan [<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com">mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag</span><span lang="DE" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">, 4. Oktober 2016 20:25<br>
<b>An:</b> Cancio Jorge BAKOM <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Niels ten Oever <<a href="mailto:lists@nielstenoever.net">lists@nielstenoever.net</a>>;
<a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ws2-hr] New Draft Text for FoI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">First, as a fellow rapporteur I understand the need to move forward, and to create something to react to. I do feel however that we are jumping the gun.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I would like to sign on to the concerns expressed by Bastiaan, who in turn is citing the concerns of Matthew and Tatiana.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Based on our discussions so far, we have no consensus on whether, to what extent, or how any of the UNGPs might be applied. Yet the document seems to start from the opposite
assumption. That concerns me, as I don't think that makes the process shorter but rather complicates our process.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">I'll paste in a statement that I made in comments to the document (apologies for not providing context):<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">We are not merely seeing "where specific problems may be identified." That is tantamount to assuming the UNGPs are in, unless "problems can be identified." We are not operating
under any such assumption. If anything, we are operating under the opposite assumption. We are seeing where the UNGPs can be applied to our work. In other words, no part of the UNGPs are in, unless there is consensus that they are in. Furthermore, there
is no assumption that we are taking all or any part of the UNGP "as is" as opposed to being revised, modified, limited, etc. </span><span lang="DE-CH"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH" style="font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"">Greg<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH">On Tue, Oct 4, 2016 at 4:36 AM, <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" target="_blank">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH">Sorry, I forgot to add that I have included a series of comments in the Google doc - hope they are helpful<br>
Regards<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----<br>
Von: <a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org">ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org">ws2-hr-bounces@icann.org</a>] Im Auftrag von
<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a><br>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 4. Oktober 2016 10:06<br>
An: <a href="mailto:lists@nielstenoever.net">lists@nielstenoever.net</a><br>
Cc: <a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br>
Betreff: Re: [Ws2-hr] New Draft Text for FoI<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH"><br>
Dear Niels<br>
<br>
thanks for this constructive and useful first draft on the issue.<br>
<br>
best<br>
<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
Von meinem iPhone gesendet<br>
<br>
> Am 03.10.2016 um 17:07 schrieb Niels ten Oever <<a href="mailto:lists@nielstenoever.net">lists@nielstenoever.net</a>>:<br>
><br>
> Dear all,<br>
><br>
> I hope this e-mail finds you well. To ensure nothing of our<br>
> constructive discussions is getting lost, and to help us continue to<br>
> be very concrete, I would like to share with you the attached<br>
> document, that can also be found here (page 2 onwards):<br>
><br>
> <a href="https://docs.google.com/document/d/1emqmzyB9_0vm6oKxhIWZ47L7lxcFKUBHVn" target="_blank">
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1emqmzyB9_0vm6oKxhIWZ47L7lxcFKUBHVn</a><br>
> kBYUOsA2Q/edit<br>
><br>
> The document aims to represent a sedimentation of our discussion and<br>
> suggest a way forward, by providing potential text for the Framework<br>
> of Interpretation. Partially inspired by the reaction of John Ruggie<br>
> when I brought up our concerns with him.<br>
><br>
> I hope this proves to be useful, and I am more than happy to discuss<br>
> it with you all on the list and the call, and of course work on<br>
> suggestions and comments in the Google Doc.<br>
><br>
> Best,<br>
><br>
> Niels<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> Niels ten Oever<br>
> Head of Digital<br>
><br>
> Article 19<br>
> <a href="http://www.article19.org" target="_blank">www.article19.org</a><br>
><br>
> PGP fingerprint 8D9F C567 BEE4 A431 56C4<br>
> 678B 08B5 A0F2 636D 68E9 <ICANN Bylaws Commentary<br>
> Table.doc> _______________________________________________<br>
> Ws2-hr mailing list<br>
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> <a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-hr" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-hr</a><br>
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</blockquote>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE-CH"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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