<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Matthew,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Thanks for your response, and I'm glad to see we are converging in our thinking. I'm replying primarily to redirect this to the Human Rights mailing list -- you replied to the one I sent in error to the Jurisdiction list. Clearly a Freudian slip on my part.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 3:49 PM, matthew shears <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mshears@cdt.org" target="_blank">mshears@cdt.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>Hi Greg - yes, see inline<br>
</p><span class="">
On 27/01/2017 19:42, Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I tend to agree for the
most part with Tatiana. </div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">We
have been asked to "confirm that [the Human Rights subgroup]
it has completed developing the Human Rights FOI per Annex
12." This can't be a rubber stamp.</font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif"> </span><font face="verdana, sans-serif">We need to satisfy ourselves that
this FoI really reflects </font><i style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">how</i><font face="verdana, sans-serif"> and <i>that </i>we have
considered each of the following:</font></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.6pt 0.1in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:symbol;color:black">·<span>
</span></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">Consider
which specific Human Rights conventions or other
instruments, if any, should be used by ICANN in
interpreting and implementing
the Human Rights Bylaw.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.9pt 0.15in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:symbol;color:black">·<span>
</span></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">Consider
the policies and frameworks, if any, that ICANN needs to
develop or enhance in order to fulfill its commitment to
respect Human Rights.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.65pt 0.5in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:symbol;color:black">·<span>
</span></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">Consistent
with ICANN’s existing processes and protocols, consider
how these new frameworks should be discussed and drafted
to ensure broad
multistakeholder involvement in the process.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.65pt 0.3in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:symbol;color:black">·<span>
</span></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">Consider
what effect, if any, this Bylaw would have on ICANN’s
consideration of advice given by the Governmental Advisory
Committee (GAC).<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.8pt 0in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:symbol;color:black">·<span>
</span></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">Consider
how, if at all, this Bylaw will affect how ICANN’s
operations are carried out.<span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.85pt 0.1in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:symbol;color:black">·<span>
</span></span><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black">Consider
how the interpretation and implementation of this Bylaw
will interact with existing and future ICANN policies and
procedures.</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></span>
I agree we need to have this discussion.<span class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.85pt 0.1in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;color:black"><span></span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:6.85pt 0.1in 0.0001pt 0.9in;line-height:12.65pt;vertical-align:baseline"><br>
</p>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Do
we want "consider" to be synonymous with "duly take into
account" which can be satisfied by reviewing and
considering an element (say, a public comment) and then
deciding that nothing will be as a result of that
review? At the very least, we need to make sure we did
the "review and consider" part. If no changes need to be
made in the FoI on a given point, then we should be able
to say why we came to that conclusion.</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></span>
Agree. As I suggested in my e-mail.<span class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><b>We
need to have a substantial discussion to determine
whether the FoI reflects that we have considered each of
these elements, and reflects the outcome of that
consideration.</b></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><b>Until
we do this, I strongly question whether the Framework of
Interpretation document is ready for Public Comment.</b> If
we decided that separate documents/annexes/etc. were
needed, then perhaps this could be put out for comment.
But I question that as well. Those really are parts of
the FoI package, and would also need to be put out for
Public Comment before the Bylaw graduates from "dormant"
status. Wouldn't it be better to have the whole package
out there at once? As an alternative, we could put the
FoI out for a second set of comments while putting the
added pieces out for first comments (and possibly only
comments).</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></span>
Preferably one time - anything else will be confusing.<span class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">Also,
the determination of the Co-Chairs was that we follow
Annex 12, rather than Annex 6. Annex 12 calls for a
single integrated document reflecting all
considerations. Annex 6 calls for follow-on documents.
Since we are going with Annex 12 any additional material
needed to reflect our "consideration" <b>must be in the
FoI itself.</b></div>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote></span>
If it is appropriately considered and necessary, yes.<span class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><b><br>
</b></div>
</span></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">One
last point. I think that the open-ended invitation to "</div>
</span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">develop
suggestions for ICANN implementing the HR FOI
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">"</div>
</span><span style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div style="display:inline"> goes
beyond our mandate. The only implementation advice we
should be giving would be as a result of "considering"
the 6 bullet points above. One could say there is an
express or implied element of implementation (or more
accuerately "implementation guidance," which is not
quite the same thing)</div>
</span><font face="verdana, sans-serif">
<div style="display:inline"> in
each of these bullet points. </div>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span><font face="verdana, sans-serif" size="-1">Some of those bullets are
clearly related to implementation - which is, while important to
consider for the FoI, beyond our mandate. Now, if we wished to go
down that route that would be separate to the FoI.</font><span class=""><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">
<div style="display:inline">A
textual analysis of the Bylaw, no matter how excellent
it is, does not satisfy any of these points. And going
beyond these points into an unfettered discussion of
suggestions for Implementation would be going too far.</div>
</font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</span><font face="verdana, sans-serif"><font size="-1">A delicate balance
for sure, but one we can address.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
<br>
Matthew</font></span></font><br>
</font>
<blockquote type="cite"><span class="">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">
<div style="display:inline"><br>
</div>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">
<div style="display:inline">So, I'm
sorry to say, we're not there yet.</div>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">
<div style="display:inline"><br>
</div>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font face="verdana, sans-serif">
<div style="display:inline">Greg</div>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"></div>
On Fri, Jan 27, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Seun Ojedeji <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto">Thanks, do find
inline:</div>
<div class="gmail_quote" dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 26, 2017 2:11 PM,
"León Felipe Sánchez Ambía" <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="m_734694327057617771gmail-m_6955970487301612232quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">Dear all,<span class="m_734694327057617771gmail-">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Considering
these and other factors the Co-Chairs
would recommend that the Human Rights
sub-group confirm that it has completed
developing the Human Rights FOI per Annex
12 of the CCWG-Accountability WS1
Recommendations.</div>
</div>
</span></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">SO: Exact question that I have been
asking as well, which also implies that it's not
helpful to put the draft FoI to public comment without
getting clear response on the point above!</div>
<span class="m_734694327057617771gmail-">
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="m_734694327057617771gmail-m_6955970487301612232quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-size:small">Should the
sub-group feel that it should develop
suggestions for ICANN implementing the HR
FOI based on its work to date the
Co-Chairs would be amenable to this and
would invite the HR sub-group to submit
any such suggestions to the plenary for
consideration by early May 2017, if there
was no objection from the plenary.</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
</span>
<div dir="auto">SO: May I ask the Co-Chairs to clarify
what part of the WS1 report mandates the HR subgroup
to carry out the task above or is this WS2 assigning a
new task to the subgroup?. Like I have said, it seem
to me that all HR needed to produce was the FoI and
they just need to confirm if the draft they sent was
done is consideration of Annex 12 period!</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">Regards</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra" dir="auto">
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="m_734694327057617771gmail-m_6955970487301612232quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span class="m_734694327057617771gmail-">
<div style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div>
<div style="font-size:small"><br>
</div>
<div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thomas, Mathieu and León</div>
</div>
<br>
</div>
</div>
<br>
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<br><span class="">
<pre class="m_734694327057617771moz-signature" cols="72">--
------------
Matthew Shears
Global Internet Policy and Human Rights
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT)
<a href="tel:+44%207712%20472987" value="+447712472987" target="_blank">+ 44 771 2472987</a></pre>
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