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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Actually, that’s wrong Thiago, but you know that. The facts are that .cat has physical offices in Spain – hence its offices could be raided. That is true irrespective of whether or not the .cat owners are corporate domiciled in Spain or in France or anywhere else in the world. The same is true of ICANN’s offices in Turkey, which have not been raided by Turkish police and (we all fervently hope never will be).<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>While I join everyone in dismay at the action of the Spanish authorities they prove my point, as Nigel said. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"><span style='color:#0563C1'>paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>O: +1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>M: +1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/"><span style='color:#0563C1'>www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>My PGP Key: <a href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684"><span style='color:#0563C1'>https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 20, 2017 8:47 AM<br><b>To:</b> 'farzaneh badii' <farzaneh.badii@gmail.com>; Nigel Roberts <nigel@channelisles.net><br><b>Cc:</b> ws2-jurisdiction <ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org>; ws2-hr@icann.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: [Ws2-hr] .cat<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Dear all,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Farzaneh is right in disagreeing with Nigel.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The .CAT case only confirms that the territorial State, that is the State in which territory a legal entity is based (in this case the .CAT registry), is in the unique position to enforce its prescriptions against that legal entity.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Notice that the action of "raiding" the .CAT registry was undertaken by Spanish law enforcers, and only they could have undertaken it (at least until such time as Spain consents to foreign officials' exercising forceful actions within Spanish territory). In sum, the "police raid" by Spain happened because the .CAT registry, being located in Spain, was subject to the territorial jurisdiction of Spain, notably its exclusive enforcement jurisdiction.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>In the case of ICANN, the lessons the .CAT case teaches us (as if anyone really needed this case to be convinced of the following) is that the United States, the country in whose territory ICANN is based (as well as where are located its DNS management activities), is in the unique position to enforce law prescriptions against ICANN, to enforce its sanctions regime against ICANN, to shutdown ICANN, to interfere with ICANN's DNS management activities. No other country is in a position to do so, and this should be remedied.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Thiago<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>De:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> <a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>] <b>Em nome de </b>farza</span><span lang=PT-BR style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>neh badii<br><b>Enviada em:</b> quarta-feira, 20 de setembro de 2017 08:51<br><b>Para:</b> Nigel Roberts<br><b>Cc:</b> ws2-jurisdiction; <a href="mailto:ws2-hr@icann.org">ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br><b>Assunto:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] [Ws2-hr] .cat<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>Farzaneh </span><span lang=PT-BR><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR>On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 6:24 AM, Nigel Roberts <<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net" target="_blank">nigel@channelisles.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><br><br>I think this all clearly proves Paul Rosenzweig's point that ICANN's jurisdiction is irrelevant as national police forces and judicial authorities can apply national law to particular registries.<br><br>Under the Treaty of Rome, incidentally, the .CAT registry has the complete right to move it's operations to any of the other 27 Member states (soon to be 26) of the Union. If it did that, would ICANN itself then come in the firing line from the Spanish courts, perhaps?<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=PT-BR><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div><div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'></span><span lang=PT-BR style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'>I disagree. ICANN's jurisdiction is the most relevant when it comes to delegation-redelegation of ccTLDs and accreditation of regirars and approval of registries. This case does not prove the point that ICANN's jurisdiction is totally irrelenat under all circumstances.</span><span lang=PT-BR style='font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'></span><span lang=PT-BR style='font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif'> As we clearly demonstrated at the jurisdiction group. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><br>On 20/09/17 09:58, Thomas Rickert wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=PT-BR>Hi all,<br>you might find this article interesting.<br><br><a href="https://www.internetnews.me/2017/09/20/dotcat-registry-offices-raided-spanish-police/" target="_blank">https://www.internetnews.me/2017/09/20/dotcat-registry-offices-raided-spanish-police/</a><br><br>Best,<br>Thomas<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=PT-BR>_______________________________________________<br>Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR>_______________________________________________<br>Ws2-hr mailing list<br><a href="mailto:Ws2-hr@icann.org" target="_blank">Ws2-hr@icann.org</a><br><a href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-hr" target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-hr</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=PT-BR><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></body></html>