[Ws2-jurisdiction] Agenda for Jurisdiction Subgroup Meeting #12

Mon Dec 5 22:39:37 UTC 2016

Kavouss,

On the call today (which you attended), we decided that the questions the
Subgroup approves would be presented to the CCWG for a first and second
reading before being sent out.  This is consistent with the approach taken
with the SO/AC Accountability Subgroup questionnaire.  I assume that
resolves your current concern.  Also, as I'm sure you are aware, any
deliverable approved by the Subgroup will then go to the CCWG for a first
and second reading as well.  The Jurisdiction Subgroup is no different than
any other subgroup in regard to these working methods.

However, I strongly object to any attempt to delegitimize the work of the
Jurisdiction Subgroup based on the completely incorrect statement that
there are very few participants in the group other than "US nationals or US
affiliated" persons.

I am confident that we can "count on" the work of this Subgroup as fully
and completely as any other Subgroup.  Any implication otherwise is
incorrect at best.  Assuming *arguendo* that this is an appropriate way to
analyze the validity of a working group or subgroup, the facts actually
destroy your conclusion rather than supporting it.

I'm sure the Co-Chairs are aware of the actual facts, which is that our
group is large and geographically diverse.  To remind them (and you), the
list of participants is below.  At least 40 of the 63 participants are
non-US.

Actual participation is similar.  On the call last week, 14 out of 22
participants attending the call were non-US: Amrita Vasudevan, Andrew
Harris, Avri Doria, Cheryl Langdon-Orr, David McAuley, Edward Morris, Erich
Schweighofer, Farzaneh Badii, Finn Petersen, Greg Shatan, Jean-Jacques
Subrenat, Jeff Neuman, Jorge Cancio, Kavouss Arasteh, Mary Uduma,
Parminder Jeet Singh, Paul McGrady, Pedro da Silva, Philip Corwin, Rafael
Perez Galindo, Vinay Kesari, Wale Bakare.

On this week's call, the balance was "only" 50/50, if you include Javier
Rua-Jovet (Puerto Rico) who was an observer/guest (and new NARALO rep to
ALAC).  Without Javier, non-US participants were again in the majority.

As you can see, the concern you raise is not only baseless, it is
completely counterfactual. I thank you for the opportunity to examine the
facts and point this out.

Best regards,

Greg

   1. *Greg Shatan - Co-Rapporteur*
   2. *Vinay Kesari - Co-Rapporteur*
   3. Adebunmi Akinbo
   4. Agustina Callegari
   5. Alain Bidron
   6. Amrita Vasudevan
   7. Andreea Brambilla
   8. Andrew Harris
   9. Avri Doria
   10. Ayden Férdeline
   11. Barbara Wanner
   12. Cheryl Langdon-Orr
   13. Christopher Wilkinson
   14. Claudio Lucena
   15. Corinne Cath
   16. David McAuley
   17. Doaa Shendy
   18. Edward Morris
   19. Erich Schweighofer
   20. Farzaneh Badii
   21. Finn Petersen
   22. Ghislain de Salins
   23. Griffin Barnett
   24. Guru Acharya
   25. Haoran Huang
   26. Herb Waye
   27. Jean-Jacques Subrena
   t
   28. Jeff Neuman
   29. Jimson Olufuye
   30. John Curran
   31. Jordan Carter
   32. Jorge Cancio
   33. Jyoti Panday
   34. Kavouss Arasteh
   35. Konstantinos Komaitis
   36. Mary Uduma
   37. Matthew Shears
   38. Mike Rodenbaugh
   39. Milton Mueller
   40. Nigel Roberts
   41. Pär Brumark
   42. Parminder Jeet Singh
   43. Paul McGrady
   44. Paul Rosenzweig
   45. Pedro da Silva
   46. Phil Buckingham
   47. Philip Corwin
   48. Phillip Marano
   49. Pranesh Prakash
   50. Rafael Perez Galindo
   51. Renu Sirothiya
   52. Robin Gross
   53. Samantha Eisner
   54. Simon Jansson
   55. Snehashish Ghosh
   56. Sonigitu Ekpe
   57. Steve DelBianco
   58. Steve Metalitz
   59. Tijani Ben Jemaa
   60. Tatiana Tropina
   61. Tom Dale
   62. Vidushi Marda
   63. Wale Bakare

On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 4:02 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Grec,
> The limited no. of participant except US nationals or US affiliated in
> your group is very few thus you can not and shall not count on that .The
> CCWG is the most legal, valid, and countable .
> Pls note that there is a total imbalance of participation of non US.
> I have already made known this fact to CCWG Co-Chairs.
> No questions should be sent out before being discussed and agreed
> Regards
> Kavouss
>
> 2016-12-05 19:04 GMT+01:00 Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>:
>
>> Kavouss,
>>
>> Based on our work plan, we will get to remedies after we identify and
>> agree upon issues.  If there are issues for which immunity should be
>> considered as a possible remedy, we will discuss this concept at that
>> time.  The same is true of the concept of "additional jurisdiction."  I
>> have not seen the third issue raised in this group, nor is it mentioned in
>> Annex 12, so I can't say that this issue is in scope for this subgroup.
>>
>> "Question 3" is on the agenda as item #3.  Please be more cautious in
>> raising complaints of "suppression," as there was no suppression.  The
>> additional question is on the mailing list, just in a different email
>> thread, as it has been all along.
>>
>> Now that you've brought up the issue of support for this question, I need
>> to say that your count is incorrect.  There has been a good deal more
>> opposition than support for sending out this third question.  Nonetheless,
>> we've given this question the best chance to gain further support by
>> continuing to discuss how it could be revised, which is only fair.  But
>> it's also fair to understand that support for this question has been
>> limited so far, compare to those who have voiced objections to it.
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 5, 2016 at 2:38 AM, Kavouss Arasteh <
>> kavouss.arasteh at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Grec,
>>>
>>> When you address the following ISSUES:
>>>
>>> 1.Immunity taking into account who / what is immune vis a vis whom /
>>> what?
>>>
>>> 2. Provision of additional jurisdiction such as what, Swiss jurisdiction
>>> or what?
>>>
>>> 3. Sovereignty of States via a vis Californian Law or law of any State?
>>>
>>> Please kindly put back the question 3 which was on the mailing list till
>>> yesterday evening Central European time but it was suppressed as results of
>>> only two objections while many others were in favour of it with some
>>> language aligbnment
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> 2016-12-05 6:09 GMT+01:00 Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>>> All,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Here is the agenda for Meeting #12 at 19:00 UTC on December 5.  Please
>>>> continue to discuss the "experience solicitation" questions and the
>>>> proposed additional question between now and then.  Attention to the Google
>>>> doc at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_uxN8A5J3iaofnGlr5gYo
>>>> FVKudgg_DuwDgIuyICPzbk/edit?usp=sharing is also important to keep our
>>>> work moving forward.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
>>>> Ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
>>>> https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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