[Ws2-jurisdiction] ISSUE: In rem Jurisdiction over ccTLDs

parminder parminder at itforchange.net
Wed Aug 23 07:51:12 UTC 2017



On Wednesday 23 August 2017 12:22 PM, Jorge.Cancio at bakom.admin.ch wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> please excuse my ignorance, but have domain names not be seized as "assets" or "property" in the US under the application of domestic law?
>
> Wikipedia info is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_In_Our_Sites 
>
> If a second level domain is subject to potential seizure, why not a TLD?

Yes, I too asked that question and am still awaiting a response. Some
artificial legal aura is being built around ICANN . It is no more than
an ordinary US organisation in the eyes of US law, not much different
from Verisign which has been forced to shut down .com domain names under
US custom's directions. For ICANN to become extra-ordinary in the eyes
of US law, it requires immunity under the IOI Act.

parminder 
>
> Regards
>
> Jorge 
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org] Im Auftrag von Nigel Roberts
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 23. August 2017 08:44
> An: ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> Betreff: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] ISSUE: In rem Jurisdiction over ccTLDs
>
> Milto
>
> There is no authority at all for this Claim, in law, as I suspect you know.
>
> As I suspect you also know very well, the nearest evidence that might support such a Claim is that one of the contentions in /Weinstein/ was that a ccTLD (three of them, if I remember correctly) could be garnished under the "state law" of DC. (I know technically, DC is not a state of the Union, but I don't know the US correct term-of-art for 'state or capital region')
>
> Unfortunately or fortunately (depending on one's point of view) it was not necessary for the Court to decide on this claim by the Judgment Debtor. This means that the idea that US courts might either have either or both of :-
>
> (a) legal jurisdiction over the ownership of the rights represented by a ccTLD delegation
>
> (b) the desire to exercise such (lack of desire to address a particular contention usually leads judges in common-law systems to be able conveniently to find a creative ratio that finds other reasons that the case can be decided
>
> remains a completely open question.
>
> It seems to me that additional hints for future litigants (as you know, common-law judges do that too) appear to have been given in the Weinstein judgment as to whether the rights in law enjoyed by a ccTLD manager (whatever they might be) MIGHT constitute property or not, but this remarks don't even amount to /obiter dictum/ - they are just hints at a possible road of future judicial travel and any court seised of a future Claim is entirely free to ignore them.
>
> And, even so, those hints don't address the question of /in rem/ at all.
>
>
> As you can see, I (along with some others in the ccTLD community) havefollowed, and analysed this case carefully and in some detail.
>
> We are aware of no other possible legal authority that addresses whether ccTLDs are property (let alone whether that property, if it is property, is subject to /in rem/ jurisidiction).
>
> Unless others have additional information?
>
>
>
>
> Nigel Roberts
>
> PS: I would also commend others to read Farzaneh and Milton's ccTLD paper.
>
>
> On 22/08/17 22:31, Mueller, Milton L wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Issue 3: In rem Jurisdiction over ccTLDs
>>
>>
>>
>> Description: US courts have in rem jurisdiction over domain names as a 
>> result of ICANN's place of incorporation
>>
>>
>>
>> What is the evidence for this claim?
>>
>> --MM
>>
>>
>>
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