[Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: mandate re ccTLD issues

[Mueller, Milton L]

I'm sorry, Thomas but your reasoning is not valid. And I can't tell whether this is just posturing to signal your sensitivity to some ccTLD operators or whether it is meant to be taken seriously as an impediment to the group's work. 

But the jurisdictional issues related to ICANN's incorporation in the U.S. affect, or have the potential to affect, ccTLD delegations. Ergo, it is within our remit, full stop. 

In recommending solutions, we may choose to defer to the CCNSO, but that is a policy choice we make here, not a hard constraint. I certainly do believe that cc's themselves take most of the responsibility for devising a solution to any problems we identify, but that doesn't stop us from identifying problems. 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-
> bounces at icann.org] On Behalf Of Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira
> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:53 PM
> To: 'Thomas Rickert' <thomas at rickert.net>; ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> Subject: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: mandate re ccTLD issues
> 
> Dear Thomas,
> 
> Could you please explain why a << recommendation that ICANN obtain
> immunity from US jurisdiction in respect of its ccTLD management activities
> >> "steps over" whatever line there is related to ccNSO's prerogatives?
> 
> I'm convinced it does not, and I think I have explained the reasons why (and
> how) that is so, as well as offered concrete proposals for a recommendation
> on this ccTLD issue that respects the prerogatives of the ccNSO (for example,
> see here: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ws2-jurisdiction/2017-
> August/001441.html and here: http://mm.icann.org/pipermail/ws2-
> jurisdiction/2017-August/001496.html ).
> 
> It would be helpful if you could respond to the e-mails I linked above.
> 
> Thank you.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Thiago
> 
> 
> 
> -----Mensagem original-----
> De: ws2-jurisdiction-bounces at icann.org [mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-
> bounces at icann.org] Em nome de Thomas Rickert Enviada em: quarta-feira, 6
> de setembro de 2017 04:17
> Para: ws2-jurisdiction at icann.org
> Cc: Thomas Rickert
> Assunto: [Ws2-jurisdiction] mandate re ccTLD issues
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> there has been quite some discussion about whether or not ccTLD delegations
> and redelegations (Nigel, I know it is technically not a relegation :-)) should be
> worked on as issues for the jurisdiction sub team.
> 
> This is a particularly sensitive issue for different reasons.
> 
> Not all ccTLD operators are part of the ccNSO and therefore ICANN, let alone
> our group,and we cannot establish rules for disputes that affect those ccTLDs.
> 
> Further, when we worked on the “judiciary building block“ in our
> accountability system, we explicitly limited our work to issues not related to
> ccTLD (re)delegations. Therefore, we made it part of our recommendations
> that the ccNSO would develop a policy for this..
> 
> ccNSO representatives have made it abundantly clear that we must not step
> over this line and try to impose on them. We could check with the ccNSO
> leadership, but given the discussions at the time I strongly believe that the
> ccNSO’s support for WS1 recommendations was based on this very
> demarcation in our recommendations.
> 
> In addition to that, one of our main principles for WS2 is not to undo work
> that has been done in WS1. Working on (re)delegation issues for ccTLDs
> would violate that rule.
> 
> I hope this helps.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Thomas
> 
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