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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Point taken, Greg.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">But I would like to see this discussion go from the general to the specific.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Which specific individuals and countries are being unfairly prevented from being registry operators (which is the effect of OFAC compliance in the context of
the Applicant Guidebook)? What actual harm are they actually incurring (as we are all well aware that any entity can readily communicate its views across the Internet)? What potential jurisdiction would permit them to be a registry operator if ICANN had corporate
locus there, and what negative consequences might accompany such a relocation?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">ICANN is a corporation that will be subject to the jurisdiction of whatever nation it is incorporated within unless it radically changes its legal character
and become some species of IGPO with attendant immunities. That result would be at complete odds with a very clear condition set for the transition, and would also leave ICANN far less accountable in relevant courts.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Those who are continually seeking to re-litigate ICANN’s US jurisdiction, upon which its new accountability structure is based, should be required to cite specific
harms and solutions, as so long as ICANN is domiciled in some nation there will always be national laws it must comply with that someone can find fault with.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Best, Philip<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Virtualaw LLC</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">1155 F Street, NW</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Suite 1050</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Washington, DC 20004</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8597/Direct</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-559-8750/Fax</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">202-255-6172/Cell</span></b><b><span style="color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p> </o:p></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">Twitter: @VlawDC</span></b><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:navy">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey</span></i></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Greg Shatan [mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 14, 2016 7:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Phil Corwin<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Avri Doria; farzaneh badii; ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Multiple Layers of Jurisdiction Document<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Phil, I think the issue is non-SDN residents of sanctioned countries, while you are referring to SDNs.<br>
<br>
Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 7:13 PM Phil Corwin <<a href="mailto:psc@vlaw-dc.com">psc@vlaw-dc.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I for one do not believe criminal or terrorist organizations should be registry operators. <br>
<br>
Philip S. Corwin, Founding Principal <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Virtualaw LLC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">1155 F Street, NW<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Suite 1050<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Washington, DC 20004<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">202-559-8597/Direct<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">202-559-8750/Fax<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">202-255-6172/Cell<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Twitter: @VLawDC<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">"Luck is the residue of design" -- Branch Rickey<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Nov 14, 2016, at 6:27 PM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Farzaneh,<br>
<br>
As you say, collecting issues is important. We then need to analyze them. In the case of a new gTLD, we would need to determine whether an OFAC license would be necessary for a new gTLD applicant from a sanctioned country. I'm not at all certain that is the
case. If it is, I would not jump to the conclusion that this is a "grave uncertainty." I think the italicizes language may be an exercise of caution. ICANN could not possibly say that OFAC is required to issue a license, nor can it ever promise a result from
any government or other third party. Hence the caveat. ICANN has sought and received OFAC licenses in the past, not because they are "gracious" but because that's the appropriate thing to do. I have absolutely no reason to believe that ICANN would hesitate
to do so in the future. One might wonder if the change in relationship and political climate would lead OFAC to be more stingy with licenses, but in the case of ICANN, I think that would be counterproductive. I'm not minimizing the concern, just saying that
we need to analyze each step.<br>
<br>
Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 5:37 PM farzaneh badii <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com" target="_blank">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I think collecting issues is very important. As an example, I would like to draw your attention to this paragraph in the New gTLD applicant guidebook: <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>"Legal Compliance</b> -- ICANN must comply with all U.S. laws, rules, and regulations. One such set of regulations is the economic and trade sanctions program administered by the Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC) of the U.S. Department
of the Treasury. These sanctions have been imposed on certain countries, as well as individuals and entities that appear on OFAC's List of Specially Designated Nationals and Blocked Persons (the SDN List). ICANN is prohibited from providing most goods or services
to residents of sanctioned countries or their governmental entities or to SDNs without an applicable U.S. government authorization or exemption. ICANN generally will not seek a license to provide goods or services to an individual or entity on the SDN List.
In the past, when ICANN has been requested to provide services to individuals or entities that are not SDNs, but are residents of sanctioned countries, ICANN has sought and been granted licenses as required. In any given case, however,<i> OFAC could decide
not to issue a requested license."</i><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">p.1-25 - gTLD Applicant Guidebook, Version 2012-06-04<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The paragraph goes so far as to say that ICANN is prohibited from providing most goods or services even to the residents of santioned countries. ICANN is gracious enough to request for OFAC license for those not in the SDN list but it
also says: OFAC could decide not to issue a requested license! Who would apply for a new gtld from sanctioned countries when facing such grave uncertainty. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">That's only one example. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Farzaneh <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On 13 November 2016 at 13:10, avri doria <span class="gmailmsg">
<<a href="mailto:avri@acm.org" target="_blank">avri@acm.org</a>></span> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi,<br>
<br>
As a part time staff member for APC, which signed the letter, I figure I<br>
should add my 2 cents.<br>
<br>
I do not believe the object is to undo the work of WS1 and the<br>
establishment of the EC under California rules. That is not an APC goal<br>
and I do not think the letter proposes that. But I do believe we need<br>
to look at some of the other issues.<br>
<br>
For example the one that persists to bother me and APC, is that fact<br>
that the US can make laws that prohibit ICANN/IANA from doing business<br>
with particular countries, whether it is because of boycott or other<br>
international reasons. I know we say that has never happened, though<br>
there may be some arguments about whether it did or not, but it could<br>
happen. Another issue is that given the removal of US oversight the US<br>
government commitment made in WSIS and elsewhere to never interfere in<br>
IANA relationship with ccTLDs is meaningless. Does this commitment<br>
still hold in the current jurisdictional mix if the US government passed<br>
laws or made administrative decisions? These are the sorts of<br>
thing I think we need to find a answer/solution to. So when I look at<br>
the notion of 'immunity' that is the sort I look for. Not that I<br>
believe this can be easily achieved. Personally, I do not want to see<br>
IANA (the core of the issue and the Internet) prohibited from making a<br>
change because of US law, now or ever.<br>
<br>
I do not believe we can, or even should resolve this in WS2, but we<br>
should be aware of these problems and WS2 should recommend that further<br>
work after WS2, perhaps, be done to make sure that this and another<br>
types of errant US control are not possible. I am personally not<br>
looking for relief from the courts on contractual, accountability or EC<br>
issues as that is currently part of the accountability solution, and we<br>
have yet to see whether that works. It is going to take a few years<br>
before we have evidenc on the WS1 solution being effective. But I<br>
wonder, must that always be US courts, are there other solutions for<br>
some of these court challenges, especially those more applicable to the<br>
nationals of other nations. I think there are issues we can't ignore.<br>
<br>
So collecting the issues and figuring out what further<br>
discussion/work needs to be done on them is something that needs to be<br>
remembered and dealt with in WS2. Hence my agreement with the fact that<br>
a letter was sent indicating that there were concerns that need to be<br>
discussed and dealt with. The solution proposed in the letter where just<br>
possible avenues to explore, and even if they are impractical, we should<br>
not ignore any open issues that people might have.<br>
<br>
<br>
avri<br>
<br>
<br>
---<br>
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.<br>
<a href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank">https://www.avast.com/antivirus</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Farzaneh <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="gmailmsg">_______________________________________________</span><br>
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