<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Parminder,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">As far as I can tell, the text you are asking about is not taken verbatim from any text, but is instead a paraphrase. I can see your point with regard to adding something like "impact ICANN's accountability and the actual operation of ICANN's policies." (I would refer to "accountability" and not merely to "accountability mechanisms," which is too narrow.) </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">What do other people think about amending the second paragraph of the Preamble so it reads:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><font face="verdana, sans-serif" color="#0000ff">As directed by Bylaw Article 27, Section 27.1(b)(vi) and to the extent set forth in the CCWG-Accountability Final Report, the Jurisdiction subgroup is addressing jurisdiction-related questions, including how choice of jurisdiction and applicable laws for dispute settlement impact ICANN's accountability and the actual operation of ICANN's policies.</font><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I look forward to other thoughts.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Dec 30, 2016 at 2:56 AM, parminder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:parminder@itforchange.net" target="_blank">parminder@itforchange.net</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font face="Verdana">Greg</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">I prepfer a shorter preamble as in Alternative
1, but before that, I would like to ask where does this wording
come from</font></p>
<p class="m_-5001821091621338588western" style="margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:100%"><font face="Verdana">"...</font><font style="font-size:10pt" size="2"><font face="Verdana"> </font>the Jurisdiction subgroup is
addressing jurisdiction-related questions, including how choice
of
jurisdiction and applicable laws for dispute settlement impact
ICANN's accountability.</font></p>
<p>
</p>
Is it ad verbatim from an authoritative text or a kind of
paraphrasing the mandate... I would especially want to know why this
part ends with "..impact ICANN's accountability" and not with
"impact actual operation of policies and accountability
mechanisms".... In most text on this group's mandate I see both
"actual operation of policies" and "accountability mechanism" stated
together. Why would we now limit this process to looking at the
'Impact on ICANN's accountability" alone. As you would have seen,
most of the discussion here pertained to impact of jurisdiction on
"actual operation of policies". We cannot leave that out. <br>
Thanks, parminder <br><div><div class="h5">
<br>
<br>
<div class="m_-5001821091621338588moz-cite-prefix">On Friday 30 December 2016 12:57 PM,
Greg Shatan wrote:<br>
</div>
</div></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">REMINDER to READ this
email and RESPOND, at least with regard to the questionnaire
(see attachment). I've slightly revised the email for
clarity.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">To try and focus this
discussion, I'll provide a strawman for how to deal with the
alternatives:</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Preamble -- Use
Alternative 1.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Question 1 -- Use
Alternative 1.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Question 2 -- No change</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Question 3 -- No
change.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Question 4 -- Use
Alternative 1.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Thank you for your
responses.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Greg Shatan</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 3:28 PM<br>
Subject: Focus, Working Method and Revisions to Proposed
Questions: RESPONSE REQUESTED [was: Jurisdiction Proposed
Questions and Poll Results]<br>
To: <a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">All,</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I'm sending this
to the Jurisdiction subgroup list, since this was
initially send to a discussion thread on jurisdiction
taking place on the CCWG list. </div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b><font color="#ff0000">Please respond here, rather than
there. Thank you.</font></b></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message
----------<br>
From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Greg Shatan</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>></span><br>
Date: Tue, Dec 27, 2016 at 2:56 AM<br>
Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] RES: Jurisdiction Proposed
Questions and Poll Results<br>
To: "<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-communit<wbr>y@icann.org</a>"
<<a href="mailto:accountability-cross-community@icann.org" target="_blank">accountability-cross-communit<wbr>y@icann.org</a>><br>
<br>
<br>
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">All:</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Two quick
but important points:</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">1. We have
strayed from the basic topic in front of us, which is
to decide on the formulation of the questions to be
sent out. <b>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline"></div>
I have gone through the emails and meeting notes and
pulled the alternative formulations and revisions in
to a single document, attached to this email. </b>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">With regard
to question 4, I believe that the best way to move
forward is to see if one of the alternatives gets
stronger support within the CCWG. If we can get to a
point where there is broad support for the question
without significant opposition that may resolve issues
relating to whether and when this question will be
sent out.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">2. Our
overall agreed-upon working method is to first
identify, discuss and arrive at a list of
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
, and then move on to identifying, discussing and
arriving at a list of potential remedies for each
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problem</div>
on our list. We are still working on
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
. For a remedy to be up for discussion when we move
to discussing remedies, that remedy needs to provide a
solution to a
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">
problem</div>
. We can't discuss a potential remedy without having
a
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">
problem</div>
it is intended to solve. If there is a potential
"remedy" but it does not solve any of our
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
, we won't discuss it. </div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We've
already put aside one potential "remedy" until we see
whether we identify any
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
it would solve -- the "remedy" of changing ICANN's
jurisdiction of incorporation or headquarters
location. "Immunity" is another potential remedy that
we need to deal with the same way. Skipping forward
to discussions of remedies is only slowing down our
discussion of
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
. I strongly suggest we refocus on
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
, so that we can get to the discussion of remedies.
Once we've agreed on a list of
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
, a discussion of remedies will be more productive.</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Our working
method of dealing with
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
first and then remedies may also help us find
agreement on a way to deal with question 4. Questions
1-3 clearly deal with issues. Perhaps a version of
question 4 that is limited to asking for
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif;display:inline">problems</div>
will get broader support ("Alternative 1" on the
attachment may fit this description.)</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">Greg</div>
<br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><u>The
following responses were received on the
Accountability list</u>:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Parminder</b>: </div>
<div><span style="font-family:verdana;font-size:12.8px">Greg/
All</span></div>
<p style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><font face="Verdana">I think the Alternative 1, which
you take as likely candidate for broader support,
is fine. I list this formulation below:</font></p>
<p style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><span class="m_-5001821091621338588gmail-m_-4162728608987875720gmail-im"></span></p>
<p class="m_-5001821091621338588gmail-m_-4162728608987875720gmail-m_-7105396059568446183western" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:12.8px" align="center"><font style="font-size:10pt">What are
the advantages or disadvantages, if any, relating
to ICANN's jurisdiction*, particularly with regard
to the actual operation of ICANN’s policies and
accountability mechanisms? Please support your
response with appropriate examples, references to
specific laws, case studies, other studies, and
analysis. In particular, please indicate if there
are current or past instances that highlight such
advantages or problems.</font></p>
<p class="m_-5001821091621338588gmail-m_-4162728608987875720gmail-m_-7105396059568446183western" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px;margin-bottom:0cm;line-height:12.8px" align="center">(<font style="font-size:10pt">* For
these questions, “ICANN’s jurisdiction” refers to
(a) ICANN being subject to U.S. and California law
as a result of its incorporation and location in
California, (b) ICANN being subject to the laws of
any other country as a result of its location
within or contacts with that country, or (c) any
“choice of law” or venue provisions in agreements
with ICANN.)</font></p>
<font style="font-family:arial,sans-serif" size="2">ENDS<br>
<br>
</font><span style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"></span>
<div class="m_-5001821091621338588gmail-m_-4162728608987875720gmail-m_-7105396059568446183moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Lets move on with
it. We are spending too much time on framing a
question.<span class="m_-5001821091621338588gmail-m_-4162728608987875720gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div class="m_-5001821091621338588gmail-m_-4162728608987875720gmail-m_-7105396059568446183moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"><br>
</div>
<div class="m_-5001821091621338588gmail-m_-4162728608987875720gmail-m_-7105396059568446183moz-cite-prefix" style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b>Kavouss
Arasteh: </b></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Grec,</span></div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">Tks again,</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">As I said I believe
,it is counter productive to discuss many
alternative,</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">I could agree with
formulation of Parminder</div>
<div style="font-size:12.8px">Regards</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136);font-size:12.8px;font-family:arial,sans-serif">Kavouss</span></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><b>Sam
Lanfranco:</b></div>
<div style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Greg, </span><br style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Thank
you for presenting alternatives for reaching
agreement on a</span><i style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px"> Roadmap
for Moving Forward to identify operational
issues embedded in the overall “jurisdiction”
issue</i><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">.
It is important to recognize that what is being
proposed is the choice of roadmap for moving
forward. Where this takes us will flow from the
assembly of evidence, the application of
analysis, and the resulting array of possible
options for addressing jurisdiction base
operational issues. </span><br style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">
<br style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">
<span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:12.8px">Sam
Lanfranco</span><b><br>
</b></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="m_-5001821091621338588mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
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</pre>
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