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<p><font face="Verdana">Although I do see that in some other cases
ICANN did contest the jurisdiction over certain of its acts of
different states in the US, claiming that California
jurisdiction should apply. But the main point of discussion here
is about larger application of US jurisdiction over ICANN vis a
vis that of other countries. <br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Verdana">parminder </font><br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Wednesday 05 April 2017 12:56 PM,
parminder wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:8b2d3c0c-a87a-130f-1f0e-9b23907164d6@itforchange.net"
type="cite">
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</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On Tuesday 04 April 2017 08:32 PM,
Paul Rosenzweig wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:003901d2ad54$7ff8b6f0$7fea24d0$@redbranchconsulting.com"
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Statement
#2 below is incorrect. I haven’t reviewed them all but
at a minimum ICANN contested jurisdiction in Arizona v.
ICANN, the law suit filed by the states to attempt to stop
the transition.</span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
For my statement # 2 to be incorrect, ICANN should have challenged
application of US court jurisdiction in the Arizona case -- In
fact there is no Arizona v. ICANN case that I can find. I can only
find an Arizona v. NTIA case..... I cant see ICANN to be a party
to it, neither has it filed a response. Will you please show me
where ICANN challenges US court jurisdiction in this case? Thanks.
<br>
<br>
parminder <br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:003901d2ad54$7ff8b6f0$7fea24d0$@redbranchconsulting.com"
type="cite">
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">Paul
Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"><span
style="color:#0563C1">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">O:
+1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">M:
+1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">VOIP:
+1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/"><span
style="color:#0563C1">www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">My
PGP Key: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684"><span
style="color:#0563C1">https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>parminder<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, April 4, 2017 6:14 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Pool.com case
summary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Monday 03 April 2017 07:57 PM, Paul
Rosenzweig wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Why
would you say that Seun – it is what the lawyers for
ICANN argued, but there is no evidence that the Canadian
court agree to that submission. I would expect ICANN’s
lawyers to make that argument and I would also expect
based on what little I know of Canadian law that in the
end the court would have rejected the argument. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
It is absolutely significant that<br>
<br>
(1) In the only documented case which went before a non US
court, ICANN promptly contested the court's jurisdiction.
This is fact was its primary argument as far as I can see
from the case details.<br>
<br>
(2) In none of more than 20 other documents cases, all in US
courts, ICANN ever contested -- in the slightest -- the
court's jurisdiction over ICANN or the matter under
consideration. <br>
<br>
It clearly shows that everyone -- ICANN, US courts, in fact
even all of us -- know what is what vis a vis the absolute
jurisdictional powers of US over ICANN, and thus over its
policies and their implementation, and very feeble
jurisdictional leeway (and even lesser enforcement capacity)
that non US courts and other state agencies have over ICANN.
<br>
<br>
We are simply wasting out time trying to minutely examine
facts that are fairly well established and normally not
contested. <br>
<br>
As you agreed with me in a way, lets come to the crux of the
matter, and see what is this group really trying to do, what
progress we are making or not making, what is the prognosis
of possible outcomes, and so on....<br>
<br>
IMHO we are just making ourselves believe that we are doing
something in this group, when in fact we are not doing
anything at all. <br>
<br>
<b><i>Sub-group chairs,</i></b><br>
<br>
Kavouss had put the matter to the CCWG chairs of the email I
wrote about the non progress of this groups work. CCWG chair
seem to have ordered the matter to be addressed by the sub
group. Are you going to take up that matter?<br>
<br>
Also note that Paul too agreed with me that we seem not to
be going anywhere (or some such, I do not want to put words
in his mouth, his email of a few days back may be read)<br>
<br>
Thanks, parminder <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Paul
Rosenzweig</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"><span
style="color:#0563C1">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">O:
+1 (202) 547-0660</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">M:
+1 (202) 329-9650</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">VOIP:
+1 (202) 738-1739</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/"><span
style="color:#0563C1">www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My
PGP Key: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684"><span
style="color:#0563C1">https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Seun Ojedeji<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 3, 2017 9:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mathieu Weill <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr"><mathieu.weill@afnic.fr></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> ws2-jurisdiction <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org"><ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] Pool.com case
summary</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thanks
a lot for sharing this Mathieu, I guess this removes
any claims that the experience would be the same if
ICANN were sued outside of her jurisdiction of
incorporation. The following text makes that quite
clear:<br>
<br>
"Defendant ICANN asserted that the Court lacked
jurisdiction because (quoting the argument):<br>
ICANN is not resident in Ontario<br>
The Action has no real or substantial connection to
Ontario<br>
Virtually all the evidence and witnesses are in
California"<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">I am
not a lawyer but perhaps it may be good to know how
flexible it is for non-US customer of ICANN to legally
engage/challenge ICANN in her place of incorporation.
The impact of this on US-banned countries may also be
a good to know.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 3, 2017 at 2:29 PM,
Mathieu Weill <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr" target="_blank">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="FR">Dear Colleagues, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
lang="FR"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Here
is another summary form for the Pool.com vs
ICANN case. It’s an interesting case because it
was the only one documented as submitted in
front of a non-US court. However it was settled
before it reached the decision stage. <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:#888888"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="color:#888888" lang="FR">-- <br>
***************************** <br>
Mathieu WEILL <br>
AFNIC - directeur général <br>
Tél: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="tel:+33%201%2039%2030%2083%2006"
target="_blank">+33 1 39 30 83 06</a> <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mathieu.weill@afnic.fr"
target="_blank">mathieu.weill@afnic.fr</a> <br>
Twitter : @mathieuweill <br>
*****************************</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org">Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction"
target="_blank">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">------------------------------------------------------------------------<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#006600">Seun
Ojedeji,<br>
Federal University Oye-Ekiti<br>
web: </span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#888888"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.fuoye.edu.ng"
target="_blank">http://www.fuoye.edu.ng</a><br>
</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#006600">Mobile:
+2348035233535</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#888888"><br>
</span></i><i><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#006600">alt
email:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://goog_1872880453"
target="_blank"> </a><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng"
target="_blank">seun.ojedeji@fuoye.edu.ng</a></span></i><o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote
style="border:none;border-left:solid
#CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Garamond",serif;color:#888888">Bringing
another down does not take you up -
think about your action!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<pre>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre>Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list<o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org">Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
<pre><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction</a><o:p></o:p></pre>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
<br>
<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Ws2-jurisdiction mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org">Ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction">https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/ws2-jurisdiction</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
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