<div dir="ltr">I meant to say, "the same could go with the forum", not court, obivously ;) <div><br></div><div>Best,</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-09-11 10:46 GMT+02:00 Raphaël BEAUREGARD-LACROIX <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:raphael.beauregardlacroix@sciencespo.fr" target="_blank">raphael.beauregardlacroix@sciencespo.fr</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Kavouss,<div><br></div><div>I believe that was Becky was suggesting was an adaptation of applicable law according to pre-defined regions in the world. </div><div><br></div><div>For example, all registries in Europe could enter into a RA whose governing law would be Dutch law while North American registries would have US law as governing law, and then the community could provide input on which governing law they would want to have on a regional basis.</div><div><br></div><div>The same could go with courts, as I and Eric mentioned as well. </div><div><br></div><div>Obviously defining regions is somewhat arbitrary, but the community could also provide input on that. </div><div><br></div><div>I still think that the RAs are drafted accoding to an American style and would be better served by California law governing, while there could be more flexibility on the choice of forum. </div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div><div class="h5"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-09-11 7:19 GMT+02:00 Schweighofer Erich <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.at" target="_blank">erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.<wbr>at</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear all,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would support Beck Burr. It makes good sense to recommand regional arbitration courts that know the ICANN system and are established in jurisdictions with only necessary interference in arbitation (e.g. due process, transparency, rule
of law).</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Best,</p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Erich</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0cm"><b>Von: </b><a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">Kavouss Arasteh</a><br>
<b>Gesendet: </b>Montag, 11. September 2017 07:12<br>
<b>An: </b><a href="mailto:Becky.Burr@team.neustar" target="_blank">Burr, Becky</a>; <a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">
ws2-jurisdiction</a><br>
<b>Betreff: </b>Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] [EXTERNAL] issues on applicable law</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div><div><div class="m_5213267528039887780h5">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>Dear Beckie</div>
<div>Thanks for your views to which I totally disagree as a) thgere is no regional jurisdiction and b) there is no agreed definition of region. It is Strange that such a competent person like you taking about Something which does not exist t and can not exist
as region is a term totally subjdective and can in no way be used for jurisdiction</div>
<div>Kavouss </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Sep 7, 2017 at 1:55 PM, Burr, Becky via Ws2-jurisdiction
<span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:14px">
<div>
<div>
<div>FWIW, punitive damages are not usually permitted in contract disputes – I wonder why ICANN includes them at all.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Also, rather than requiring ICANN to agree to submit to the jurisdiction of every country where it has a relationship with a registry or registrar, is it worth considering regional jurisdiction? Contracts with European registries and registrars could
specify Swiss or Dutch or some other law, etc.?</div>
<div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:9pt">J. Beckwith Burr</span></b><b><span style="color:rgb(38,38,38);font-size:10pt">
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<span style="font-weight:bold">From: </span><<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@ican<wbr>n.org</a>> on behalf of "<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" target="_blank">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>"
<<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" target="_blank">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Date: </span>Wednesday, September 6, 2017 at 4:19 PM<br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">To: </span>"<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>" <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>><br>
<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject: </span>[EXTERNAL] [Ws2-jurisdiction] issues on applicable law<br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883h5">
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div lang="DE-CH" vlink="#954F72" link="#0563C1">
<div class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Here are, for your convenience, the two issues I have tried to briefly explain during today’s conference call, for your consideration.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">As said, the main thought is to reduce uncertainty, and clarify that the parties to the registry agreements have an effective freedom to choose the applicable law and to apply a principle of subsidiarity that may reduce
potential conflicts with the national laws where they are based.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">==<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default" style="margin-left:36pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><span>1.<span style="line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:7pt;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-variant-caps:normal">
</span></span></span><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">Issue: </span></u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">The law applicable to the Registry Agreement has been identified as being the main issue:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">The Registry Agreement contains no provision relative to the choice of jurisdiction, the applicable law consequently not being defined by the Agreement.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">This creates great legal uncertainty and a potential issue as regards the jurisdiction given that it would be the prerogative of the arbitrators or the judges having jurisdiction
-who could come from a US Court- to determine what law governs the relationship between ICANN and the registry.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">Pursuant to the current business practice, the applicable law is that of the party that provides the service in question, i.e. ICANN, a priori. A registry should therefore expect
the potentially applicable law to be the law of the State of California.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">The applicable law further determines the faculty of ICANN to claim punitive or exemplary damages (i.e. under US law, damages highly surpassing the damage actually suffered, in
order to punish a behavior), in the event the registry were to breach the contract in a deliberate and repeated manner (section 5.2 of the Registry Agreement.) This well-established institution of Common Law is non-existent under Swiss law, which follows the
principle of compensation (damages are used to repair the damage but cannot enrich the claimant,) and should be considered to be contrary to public order. Were the Swiss law to apply to the Agreement, such damages would not be granted. Following the principles
of the institutions typical to the Common Law provided for in the Registry Agreement poses issues of compatibility with other legal orders and suggests that Californian law would -a priori- apply to the Registry Agreement.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">Possible solutions:<u></u><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">The applicable law should be determined on the basis of the legitimate expectations which the parties may have in terms of applicable law. It is understandable and appropriate
that the fundamental provisions or duties contained in the Registry Agreement should apply equally to all registries around the world and be therefore interpreted in a uniform way.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">Beyond a few provisions and duties which are absolutely fundamental, it would be judicious and consistent with a legitimate expectation that the contractual relationship between
ICANN and a registry be subject to the national law of the latter. The foregoing is all the more reasonable given that the manager of a generic domain (TLD) is delegated broad powers, as it is within its scope to establish the purpose of the domain, the eligibility,
or the terms of the assignment of domain names, not to mention that it has great freedom as to the way in which a domain is actually managed.</span><span lang="EN-US"></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">There already exist special provisions for registries that are IGO/Governmental entities (section 7.16 registry agreement): if international law is at stake, there is a procedure
(mediation and arbitration ex 5.2.) to resolve disputes between the registry and ICANN – this special provision could be extended:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">- To other registries that are not IGOs/Public authorities<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">- To cover not only “international law obligations” but also national law obligations<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><u><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span><u></u></span></u></b></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286MsoListParagraph"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><span>2.<span style="line-height:normal;font-family:"Times New Roman";font-size:7pt;font-style:normal;font-weight:normal;font-variant-caps:normal">
</span></span></span><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">Issue: </span></u><u><span lang="EN-US">arbitration clause</span></u><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u><span lang="EN-US"><u></u><span style="text-decoration:none"> </span><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">With regard to territorial jurisdiction, the arbitration clause (section 5.2 of the Registry Agreement entitled "Arbitration text for intergovernmental organizations or governmental
entities") has allowed the ".swiss" registry to submit itself to the arbitration of the International Court of Arbitration of the International Chamber of Commerce in Geneva, Switzerland. This provision also provides for some flexibilities restricted to IGOs
or governmental entities as regards the competent court.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">However these flexibilities are not open to all registry operators.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><u><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">Possible solutions:<u></u><u></u></span></u></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">It would be wise in our opinion:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">- to also allow private registries to decide on the choice of their arbitration/competent court;
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="m_5213267528039887780m_5903831125276147883m_6270848619837801286Default"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt">- to broaden the possibilities of choice for all registries (by principle, to choose an arbitration recognized in each country.)
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">==<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Hope this may be considered.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Regards<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Jorge <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:10pt">Jorge Cancio
<u></u><u></u></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></b></p>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div></div></div><span class="">-- <br><div class="m_5213267528039887780gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Raphaël Beauregard-Lacroix<div><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/rapha%C3%ABl-beauregard-lacroix-88733786/" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">LinkedIn</a><span style="font-size:12.8px"> - </span><a href="https://twitter.com/rbl0112" style="font-size:12.8px" target="_blank">@rbl0012</a><span style="font-size:12.8px"> - M: </span><span style="font-size:small">+33 7 86 39 18 15</span><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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