<div dir="auto">+1 to this.<br><br>Regards<br><div data-smartmail="gmail_signature">Sent from my mobile<br>Kindly excuse brevity and typos</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sep 20, 2017 9:11 PM, "farzaneh badii" <<a href="mailto:farzaneh.badii@gmail.com">farzaneh.badii@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I suggest we do not get into interpreting EU sanctions. That is a whole separate issue and far beyond our mandate here.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">We have argued over this many times and came to a very good conclusion. When I asked that ICANN should deter the registrars from following OFAC when they do not have to Sam and others said that ICANN should not get involved with the registrars' internal policy especially when it contradicts with their local laws (I am paraphrasing not quoting them). So we came up with a very good language for ICANN to follow, it is in the doc:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"> </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">"ICANN needs to bring awareness of these issues to registrars. ICANN should clarify to registrars that the mere existence of their RAA with ICANN does not cause them to be required to comply with OFAC sanctions. ICANN should also explore various tools to remind registrars to understand the applicable laws under which they operate and to accurately reflect those laws in their customer relationships."</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">This language is sufficient for ICANN. If some non-US based registrar sanction Iranians not because of the registrar's contract with ICANN, it is out of our hands to do something about it. We have a general recommendation which fits the purpose. Why are we opening this discussion again? </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:verdana,sans-serif">I am sympathetic to this issue. One reason is that I was born and raised in Iran. So if Iranians cannot become resellers or registrants at all because of some registrars policies then I will do whatever I can to persuade those registrars to change their policy (if not against the applicable law), but this is not an issue to be discussed at ICANN and this group. </div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#888888"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_5864009327774666118gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><font face="verdana, sans-serif">Farzaneh </font></div></div></div></div></font><div class="elided-text">
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:54 PM, Schweighofer Erich <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.at" target="_blank">erich.schweighofer@univie.ac.<wbr>at</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">Dear all,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">EU sanctions may have affected registrars doing business with Iranian citizens.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">An overview: <a href="http://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/sanctions/iran/" target="_blank">
http://www.consilium.europa.eu<wbr>/en/policies/sanctions/iran/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-GB">Mostly relevant (besides individual sanctions) – lifted on 16 January 2016:
</span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#3f4a52">restrictions in the financial sector: freezing the assets of the Central Bank of Iran and major Iranian commercial banks, laying down notification and authorisation mechanisms for transfers of funds above certain
amounts to Iranian financial institutions<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB">A general license is a good idea, e.g. excluding explicitly registries and registrars and its financial transactions from financial sanctions in the legal instruments. Decisions are the competence of the Council of the
EU, proposed by the </span><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#444444;background:white">High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy. Like in the U.S. – it is not easy but possible.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#444444;background:white"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#444444;background:white">Best,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB" style="color:#444444;background:white">Erich<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-GB"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="border:none;padding:0cm"><b>Von: </b><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank">Paul Rosenzweig</a><br>
<b>Gesendet: </b>Mittwoch, 20. September 2017 21:29<br>
<b>An: </b><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">'Greg Shatan'</a>; <a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">
'Kavouss Arasteh'</a><br>
<b>Cc: </b><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">'ws2-jurisdiction'</a><br>
<b>Betreff: </b>Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] OFAC Rec.s</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
</div><div><div class="m_5864009327774666118h5">
<div>
<div class="m_5864009327774666118m_-2651756662342646298WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal">I agree with Greg. It seems clear from what Erica said that this is not an OFAC issue at all but rather an EU sanctions issue (perhaps ICANN should also be getting a general license from the EU
<span style="font-family:"Segoe UI Emoji",sans-serif">😊</span>) and since it is an individual registrar it isn’t an ICANN issue either<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Paul Rosenzweig<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsu<wbr>lting.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">O: <a href="tel:(202)%20547-0660" value="+12025470660" target="_blank">+1 (202) 547-0660</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">M: <a href="tel:(202)%20329-9650" value="+12023299650" target="_blank">+1 (202) 329-9650</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">VOIP: <a href="tel:(202)%20738-1739" value="+12027381739" target="_blank">+1 (202) 738-1739</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1">www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">My PGP Key: <a href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684" target="_blank">
<span style="color:#0563c1">https://keys.mailvelope.com/pk<wbr>s/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830<wbr>097CA066684</span></a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> <a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann<wbr>.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction-bounc<wbr>es@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Greg Shatan<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 20, 2017 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Kavouss Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> ws2-jurisdiction <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] OFAC Rec.s<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Kavouss,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">As a factual happening, I don't see why this should be reflected in our report. Resello's business decision does not seem to be related to OFAC, US jurisdiction or to any ICANN-related jurisdiction.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I asked you whether Resello's agreement with ICANN (the Registrar Accreditation Agreement (RAA)) prohibits Resello from establishing the policy you have mentioned. If ICANN does not prohibit
this policy, and it is not triggered by OFAC or some other connection to ICANN's jurisdictions, then it seems to be unconnected to our work.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I don't know whether there is an EU or Dutch law that requires this policy, or whether there is one that prohibits it. If there is one that requires it, that is not an "ICANN jurisdiction"
issue. If there is one that prohibits it and Resello is violating Dutch law, then it may be that Resello is violating the RAA requirement (Section 3.7.2) that Registrars abide by applicable law. But again, that's a Compliance issue.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 1:46 PM, Kavouss Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Dear Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do not know what question you raised. <u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">If you believe that <em><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">Mark Assenberg</span></b></em><b><i><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><br>
</span></i></b><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black"> from Resello which is a subsidiary company for Yourholding holding:</span></strong><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p style="margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:0in">
<b>with the below address <a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Ceintuurbaan+28+8024+AA+Zwolle&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#0563c1;font-weight:normal">Ceintuurbaan 28</span></a></b><b><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">,<a href="https://maps.google.com/?q=Ceintuurbaan+28+8024+AA+Zwolle&entry=gmail&source=g" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563c1;font-weight:normal">8024
AA Zwolle</span></a>, <a href="tel:+31%2038%20453%200752" target="_blank">+31 38 453 0752</a></span></b><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style="margin-bottom:8.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:black">based in Netherlands.being a non US-Based company on the basis of which
</span></strong><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">section of the RAA refrain such a business decision (i.e., a registrar deciding not to do business with citizens of a given country (whether it is Canada, Haiti, Iran or otherwise)?</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:8.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">May you address this issue as a factual happening .</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:8.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Pls kindly advise how you trest and reflect that in the report</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:8.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Regards</span><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:8.0pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#888888">Kavouss </span>
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;color:#888888"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 7:28 PM, Nigel Roberts <<a href="mailto:nigel@channelisles.net" target="_blank">nigel@channelisles.net</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
<br>
On 20/09/17 18:19, Greg Shatan wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Can you please guide me to the section of the RAA that would prevent<br>
such a business decision (i.e., a registrar deciding not to do business<br>
with citizens of a given country (whether it is Canada, Haiti, Iran or<br>
otherwise)?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
In the United Kingdom, never mind the RAA, this would be quite illegal (see s.13, prohibited conduct) unless such treatment is required by law (e.g. required by legally binding sanctions).<br>
<br>
How can anyone in the 21st century believe that any "business decision" doctrine could allow making decisions on the basis of race/citizenship (or any other protected characteristic) is quite alien over here and incomprehensible.<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15" target="_blank">http://www.legislation.gov.uk/<wbr>ukpga/2010/15</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
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