<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div></div><div>Dear all</div><div>+ 1 to Jorge and Kavouss comments</div><div>best</div><div>Olga</div><div><br>El 25 sept 2017, a las 11:24, <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> <<a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</a>> escribió:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Dear all, dear Paul,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I guess what is being highlighted is a potential „chilling effect“ that could be addressed through improved awareness and communication – something we may well mention
in this recommendation…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Kind regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Jorge
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="DE">Von:</span></b><span lang="DE"> <a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Paul Rosenzweig<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 25. September 2017 16:12<br>
<b>An:</b> 'Olga Cavalli' <<a href="mailto:olgacavalli@gmail.com">olgacavalli@gmail.com</a>>; 'Samantha Eisner' <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> 'ws2-jurisdiction' <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] [Ext] RES: OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">In the end, the problem is that the question of RAA implementation is a completely differerent issue from OFAC. The real reason this is problematic is that an unreleated issue is being shoehorned into an existing, otherwise
complete, recommendation.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">We should move consideration of the RAA issue raised to a new issue subhead in the Subgroup.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com"><span style="color:#0563C1">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">O: +1 (202) 547-0660<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">M: +1 (202) 329-9650<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">VOIP: +1 (202) 738-1739<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><a href="http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">My PGP Key: <a href="https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684">
<span style="color:#0563C1">https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> <a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">
ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a> [<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org">mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Olga Cavalli<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 23, 2017 4:42 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Samantha Eisner <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> ws2-jurisdiction <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] [Ext] RES: OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Dear all, <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">could it be possible to address Mr Araste's concerns?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">perhaps producing a new document with references to comments by himself and others?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">This could be very useful for us following the discussion as the thread of emails sometimes becomes confusing.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">Olga<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US">2017-09-22 14:52 GMT-07:00 Samantha Eisner <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org" target="_blank">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</a>>:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Sorry for the delay in responding - I'm traveling internationally and have not been able to stay fully on top of the email traffic. Greg and Paul, thank you for your responses on the issue
and for also recognizing that the question does reach into providing legal advice that ICANN is not in a position to give. I agree with your analyses.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">As noted, I've previously stated that ICANN agrees that OFAC does not apply to any of ICANN's contracted parties solely due to a contract with ICANN. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Contracted parties each need to assess for themselves whether they must comply with the OFAC regulations based on whatever business factors they choose to take into account.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="m-8609366362574713037p1" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">____</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8609366362574713037p1" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Samantha Eisner</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8609366362574713037p1" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Deputy General Counsel, ICANN</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8609366362574713037p1" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8609366362574713037p1" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Los Angeles, California 90094</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8609366362574713037p1" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">USA</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="m-8609366362574713037p1" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black">Direct Dial:
<a href="tel:(310)%20578-8631" target="_blank">+1 310 578 8631</a></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">
<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a> <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</a>> on behalf of Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, September 22, 2017 11:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Tijani BEN JEMAA<br>
<b>Cc:</b> ws2-jurisdiction<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] [Ext] RES: OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Tijani,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Paul is being a bit lawyerly and careful and emphasizing that there is no positive statement in the law or regulations that
one can point to and say, "this says OFAC doesn’t apply to any of ICANN's contracted parties solely due to their contracts with ICANN." He has also explained that there would not be, because that's not how laws work (or regulations, except if there were a
general license -- but a general license would only be needed if the sanctions would otherwise apply).</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Sam is also being careful (and has to be, because ICANN cannot give legal advice on OFAC compliance to contracted parties),
when she confirms that "ICANN cannot and does not obligate its contracted parties to follow OFAC regulations." But consider that Sam also said that "<b>ICANN agrees that OFAC does not apply to any of ICANN's contracted parties solely due to a contract with
ICANN</b>." Considering how careful ICANN has to be in not giving legal advice on OFAC compliance, this should be highly persuasive. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Consider also that all contracting parties would be in breach of their ICANN contracts if US law required them all to comply
with OFAC because they have an ICANN contract and they did not do so. Do you think ICANN or the US government would tolerate such widespread violation of law and breach of contract?</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Like Becky I'll be a little less lawyerly, and say that I can find absolutely no basis for concern that OFAC applies to any
of ICANN's contracted parties solely because they have entered into a contract with ICANN.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif;color:black">Greg</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Tijani BEN JEMAA <<a href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn" target="_blank">tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002E7A">Thank you Paul,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#002E7A">So, since no firm answer can be given, it is not sure that </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#002E7A;background:white">OFAC doesn</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.5pt;color:#002E7A;background:white">’t </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#002E7A;background:white">apply
to any of ICANN's contracted parties solely due to their contracts with ICANN, which is a concern in my opinion.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91">Tijani BEN JEMAA</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91">Executive Director</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91">Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (<b>FMAI</b>)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91">Phone:
<a href="tel:+216%2098%20330%20114" target="_blank">+216 98 330 114</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91"><a href="tel:+216%2052%20385%20114" target="_blank">+216
52 385 114</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#365F91">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Le 22 sept. 2017 à 13:13, Paul Rosenzweig <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</a>>
a écrit :<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Hi Tijani<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Let me try. You ask “According to the California or US jurisdictions” I assume you mean EITHER the executive branches of those areas or their courts. <span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">As to California – OFAC is a Federal law, so the California state government would have no authority to construe the law or enforce it. As a result, no action to enforce
OFAC requirements has ever been brought by California or adjudicated by California courts. Since the law is outside of their scope of reference this is not surprising.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">As to the Federal government, its rules regarding the scope of OFAC are set forth in regulations that are discussed in detail in the draft report the group put together.
Those regulations do not directly address ICANN (or any other specific business entity) but describe widely the categories and types of people and institutions to which it applies. The US government through the Department of Treasury has never been asked
about ICANN’s contracted parties directly and if asked they probably would refuse to answer a hypothetical. So we are left only with the regulations – and as to those, I agree with Sam that the best reading of them is that they apply to ICANN but not the
contracted parties (unless the contracted parties are themselves US companies independently subject to OFAC).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Since no enforcement action has ever been brought against ICANN or a contracted party in a US court, no US court has ever answered the question you ask<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Hope that helps<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Paul<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Paul Rosenzweig<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">O:
<a href="tel:(202)%20547-0660" target="_blank">+1 (202) 547-0660</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">M:
<a href="tel:(202)%20329-9650" target="_blank">+1 (202) 329-9650</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">VOIP:
<a href="tel:(202)%20738-1739" target="_blank">+1 (202) 738-1739</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.redbranchconsulting.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=dYTtbBIgukseIqTDSE_jTP6FcRo3hGEm3jck9IgSNlI&s=FsheHq6zPytklxrdyXT0gBBB9bIiM9n2wk_Fbuglkwg&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">www.redbranchconsulting.com</span><span style="color:purple">[redbranchconsulting.com]</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">My PGP Key:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__keys.mailvelope.com_pks_lookup-3Fop-3Dget-26search-3D0x9A830097CA066684&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=dYTtbBIgukseIqTDSE_jTP6FcRo3hGEm3jck9IgSNlI&s=5LOM0e7F4IVRj4YB10BUhCEuJx6mKXl3NBgL0KM8-Nk&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:#0563C1">https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684</span><span style="color:purple">[keys.mailvelope.com]</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">From:</span></b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>[<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Tijani BEN JEMAA<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:22 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Samantha Eisner <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>ws2-jurisdiction <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] [Ext] RES: OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Thank you Sam,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">You didn’t answer my question which was: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#002E7A;background:white">According to the California and US jurisdictions, does OFAC apply to any of ICANN's contracted parties solely due to their contracts with ICANN?</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#002E7A;background:white">I will very much appreciate a clear and to the point answer.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#365F91">Tijani BEN JEMAA</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#365F91">Executive Director</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#365F91">Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (<b>FMAI</b>)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#365F91">Phone:
<a href="tel:+216%2098%20330%20114" target="_blank">+216 98 330 114</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#365F91"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#365F91"><a href="tel:+216%2052%20385%20114" target="_blank">+216 52 385
114</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#365F91">-----------------------------------------------------------------------------</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Le 21 sept. 2017 à 20:45, Samantha Eisner <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</span></a>> a écrit
:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">ICANN cannot and does not obligate its contracted parties to follow OFAC regulations. ICANN requires them to follow applicable laws.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">— </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">Samantha Eisner</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">Deputy General Counsel, ICANN</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">12025 Waterfront Drive, Suite 300</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">Los Angeles, California 90094</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">USA</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">Direct Dial:
<a href="tel:(310)%20578-8631" target="_blank">+1 310 578 8631</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">From:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">Tijani BEN JEMAA <<a href="mailto:tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">tijani.benjemaa@topnet.tn</span></a>><br>
<b>Date:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Wednesday, September 20, 2017 at 3:20 PM<br>
<b>To:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Cc:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Samantha Eisner <<a href="mailto:samantha.eisner@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">samantha.eisner@icann.org</span></a>>, ws2-jurisdiction <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a>><br>
<b>Subject:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></b>[Ext] Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#002E7A">Thank you Samantha,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#002E7A">You said « <span style="background:white">ICANN agrees that OFAC does not apply to any of ICANN's contracted parties solely due to a
contract with ICANN. ». Does that mean that according to the California and US jurisdictions, OFAC does not apply to any of ICANN's contracted parties solely due to a contract with ICANN?</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#365F91">Tijani BEN JEMAA</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#365F91">Executive Director</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#365F91">Mediterranean Federation of Internet Associations (<b>FMAI</b>)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#365F91">Phone:
<a href="tel:+216%2098%20330%20114" target="_blank">+216 98 330 114</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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52 385 114</a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">Le 20 sept. 2017 à 21:44, Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</span></a>>
a écrit :</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">Thanks a lot for that helpful response Samantha! <br>
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Regards</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">Sent from my mobile<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#212121">On Sep 20, 2017 9:37 PM, "Samantha Eisner" <<a href="mailto:Samantha.Eisner@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Samantha.Eisner@icann.org</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Hi Seun - </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">To your question below, and as noted in my presentation to the Jurisdiction group below, ICANN agrees that OFAC does not apply to any of ICANN's contracted
parties solely due to a contract with ICANN. However, ICANN cannot provide any advice to a contracted party as to which laws and regulations are (or are not) applicable, and each contracted party is responsible for understanding that as part of their business
operations.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Sam</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">____</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Samantha Eisner</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Deputy General Counsel, ICANN</span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D12025-2BWaterfront-2BDrive-2C-2BSuite-2B300-250D-2BLos-2BAngeles-2C-2BCalifornia-2B90094-250D-2BUSA-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=9ca8NCIEA-Ax-xcRchljermQjUSdiR0U4i7sHsVe4pU&s=jqlKpYuoR60ghP7UB1YO7aIqTRwXGUJTucqk39U7mRA&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">12025
Waterfront Drive, Suite 300[maps.google.com]</span></a></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D12025-2BWaterfront-2BDrive-2C-2BSuite-2B300-250D-2BLos-2BAngeles-2C-2BCalifornia-2B90094-250D-2BUSA-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=9ca8NCIEA-Ax-xcRchljermQjUSdiR0U4i7sHsVe4pU&s=jqlKpYuoR60ghP7UB1YO7aIqTRwXGUJTucqk39U7mRA&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Los
Angeles, California 90094[maps.google.com]</span></a></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__maps.google.com_-3Fq-3D12025-2BWaterfront-2BDrive-2C-2BSuite-2B300-250D-2BLos-2BAngeles-2C-2BCalifornia-2B90094-250D-2BUSA-26entry-3Dgmail-26source-3Dg&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=9ca8NCIEA-Ax-xcRchljermQjUSdiR0U4i7sHsVe4pU&s=jqlKpYuoR60ghP7UB1YO7aIqTRwXGUJTucqk39U7mRA&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">USA[maps.google.com]</span></a></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Direct Dial:</span></span><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span></span><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967m-845601827671939475s1"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"><a href="tel:+1%20310-578-8631" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">+1
310 578 8631</span></a></span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a>>
on behalf of Seun Ojedeji <<a href="mailto:seun.ojedeji@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">seun.ojedeji@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, September 20, 2017 1:17 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Mueller, Milton L<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>ws2-jurisdiction<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Sent from my mobile<br>
Kindly excuse brevity and typos</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">On Sep 20, 2017 4:03 PM, "Mueller, Milton L" <<a href="mailto:milton@gatech.edu" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">milton@gatech.edu</span></a>>
wrote:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D">We do ask ICANN to clarify that registrars do not need to follow OFAC sanctions simply due to their contracts with ICANN, and that is important. </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">SO: Can we get ICANN legal to respond to the above as I think it will help someone like myself move from sitting on the fence on this particular topic.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Regards</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><a name="m_-8609366362574713037_m_-71096746847255"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#1F497D"> </span></a><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Kavouss Arasteh<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, September 20, 2017 10:48 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira <<a href="mailto:thiago.jardim@itamaraty.gov.br" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">thiago.jardim@itamaraty.gov.br</span></a>>;
Thomas Rickert <<a href="mailto:rickert@anwaelte.de" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">rickert@anwaelte.de</span></a>>; León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <<a href="mailto:leonfelipe@sanchez.mx" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">leonfelipe@sanchez.mx</span></a>>;
Jordan Carter <<a href="mailto:jordan@internetnz.net.nz" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">jordan@internetnz.net.nz</span></a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] RES: OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Deaar Thiago, Dear Jorge,</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Thanks to your positive r3sponse .I am waiting for Greg to resolve the issue.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">I strongly oppose to the unilateral removal of the last paragraph as result of off line exchange of views between two or three individual.</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">We should be transparent</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">We should listen to each other.We should consider problems of others<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Tks<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Regards</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Kavouss </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Thiago Braz Jardim Oliveira <<a href="mailto:thiago.jardim@itamaraty.gov.br" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">thiago.jardim@itamaraty.gov.br</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">Dear Greg,<br>
<br>
I add my voice to Jorge's suggestion and look forward to an agreeable solution.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
<br>
Thiago<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Mensagem original-----<br>
De:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span>[mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a>]
Em nome de<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Jorge.Cancio@bakom.admin.ch</span></a><br>
Enviada em: quarta-feira, 20 de setembro de 2017 05:10<br>
Para:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a><br>
Cc:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a><br>
Assunto: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Dear Greg,<br>
<br>
would it be possible that Kavouss' concerns are addressed by you also bilaterally as he seems not to be satisfied with these explanations, This could help avoiding any misunderstanding?<br>
<br>
I feel we are very close to consensus and such an effort would most probably be helpful in order to allow all to be on board.<br>
<br>
kind regards<br>
<br>
Jorge<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________<br>
<br>
Von: Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
Datum: 20. September 2017 um 07:25:56 MESZ<br>
An: Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</span></a>><br>
Cc: ws2-jurisdiction <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a>><br>
Betreff: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<br>
<br>
All,<br>
<br>
I wanted to reflect in this email thread how the various topics in the paragraph submitted by Kavouss for potential inclusion in the "General License" recommendation have been dealt with in the document. Here are the different sections of the text, followed
by my notes in italics.<br>
<br>
Generally, ICANN must pursue the application for general license at earliest time and should advertise and communicate with registries and registrars to revise their registrant agreements and not to copy and paste the general agreements found in US-based registrars.
The role of ICANN, to make awareness about such situation is critical and should not be undermined.<br>
<br>
This is now covered in the section on General Licenses, so this is not needed here.<br>
<br>
There are several reports in the media that US-Based and Non-US registrars have asked registrants to transfer out their domains immediately because they might get affected by US sanctions.<br>
<br>
This is not related to General Licenses, so it should not be included in that recommendation. Regarding non-US registrars: This issue is generally discussed in the section "Application of OFAC Limitations by Non-US Registrars." If the Subgroup receives media
reports of non-US registrars taking such actions and it appears there may be no legal basis for these actions, we could cite them in this section. Since the Subgroup has not seen the reports mentioned here, we do not have any basis to include this sentence,
and so it is not included.<br>
<br>
Regarding US registrars, who have OFAC compliance obligations, there does not appear to be an issue that falls within the purview of the Subgroup. It may well be that these registrars are complying with their legal obligations (or seeking to become compliant
with their legal obligations).<br>
<br>
Samples of that are related to Godaddy and Online Nic, which made pressure against registrants having Iranian citizenship.<br>
<br>
These are both US-based registrars, who are required to comply with OFAC sanctions. As noted above, it may well be that these registrars are complying with their legal obligations (or seeking to become compliant with their legal obligations). This does not
fit with the issue discussed in this report, which relates to mistaken application of OFAC sanctions by non-US registrars, so it is not included.<br>
<br>
To determine the nature of registrant, registrars usually refer to Admin contact details recorded in whois database. If admin address and phone number is related to sanctioned countries, it is assumed that domain owner is a hidden risk for the registrar, therefore
registrars try to examine zero risk policy in regard of penalties imposed by OFAC.<br>
<br>
This is not related to the General License either. This seems to be directed toward registrars' business practices and business judgment. Without commenting on the validity of the issue, this would not appear to be an issue for this Subgroup or the CCWG.
Furthermore, if these are registrars with OFAC compliance obligations, then it may well be that these registrars are complying with their legal obligations. If these are non-US registrars without OFAC compliance obligations, then this issue is covered generally
under "Application of OFAC Limitations by Non-US Registrars." As such the paragraph is not included.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
On Tue, Sep 19, 2017 at 1:30 AM, Arasteh <<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</span></a><mailto:<a href="mailto:kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">kavouss.arasteh@gmail.com</span></a>>>
wrote:<br>
Dear Paul<br>
Thank you very much for your comments<br>
I am open to soften the text as you suggested e.g. to replace " prove " by " determine" and the term"must" be a less stronger term such as" need" which is between must/ shall/ and may However, due to the fact that we are severely affected by the process, may
I humbly request you to kindly agree to retain the idea with slightly modified text to also be agreeable to you.<br>
I am jerky awaiting to receive your fair suggestion as soon possible Regards Kavouss<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone<br>
<br>
On 19 Sep 2017, at 02:16, Paul Rosenzweig <<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a>>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
All<br>
<br>
Given the lateness with which we received Kavouss's suggested paragraph and revisions and the fact that I, regretfully, could not make the call, let me note my disagreement with two aspects of it:<br>
<br>
First, on page 5, it is suggested that a survey be undertaken to "prove" that non-US registrars are imposing OFAC requirements. Since the point of the survey is to determine what is true, it is premature to assume that it will "prove" the facts assumed by
the proposer. The word "prove" is therefore in error and should be replaced by "determent whether"<br>
<br>
Second, I oppose the proposed new paragraph at the end simply because, as written, I have absolutely no idea what is meant. But use of terms like "must" as an imperative are always inappropriate in recommendations. Insofar as I can discern the intent (that
there is some action being taken by registries against registrants) that issue is a new one that needs to be fully discussed and it is, of course, quite different from the OFAC general license idea for ICANN that we have been discussing (which would only relate
to ICANN's on RAA agreements).<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
Paul Rosenzweig<br>
<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a><mailto:<a href="mailto:paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">paul.rosenzweig@redbranchconsulting.com</span></a>><br>
O:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+1%20202-547-0660" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">+1 (202) 547-0660</span></a><<a href="tel:(202)%20547-0660" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">tel:(202)%20547-0660</span></a>><br>
M:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+1%20202-329-9650" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">+1 (202) 329-9650</span></a><<a href="tel:(202)%20329-9650" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">tel:(202)%20329-9650</span></a>></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:12.0pt;color:#212121">VOIP:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="tel:+1%20202-738-1739" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">+1
(202) 738-1739</span></a><<a href="tel:(202)%20738-1739" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">tel:(202)%20738-1739</span></a>><span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.redbranchconsulting.com&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=SSg9DqnAreY7rqmepf941C1TwRABY8LDqML_434HenE&s=v-k9kgNfbevSG1hsn5C_hu8J81Lt2LmdyMcrbvhL3e8&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">www.redbranchconsulting.com[redbranchconsulting.com]</span></a><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.redbranchconsulting.com_&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=SSg9DqnAreY7rqmepf941C1TwRABY8LDqML_434HenE&s=HnmhcBwRiPc7pnKaGKkyyI8tqyDISzgIfxYVHliaAzU&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">http://www.redbranchconsulting.com/[redbranchconsulting.com]</span></a>><br>
My PGP Key:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__keys.mailvelope.com_pks_lookup-3Fop-3Dget-26search-3D0x9A830097CA066684&d=DwMFaQ&c=FmY1u3PJp6wrcrwll3mSVzgfkbPSS6sJms7xcl4I5cM&r=w1jlqVWntmqtI5dedIDLQ6uBxH_Jh-uBee_4imohzko&m=SSg9DqnAreY7rqmepf941C1TwRABY8LDqML_434HenE&s=3dySAIxgq5-Bu6Q6V_dX3UG4LDr_Xc36YIrFFDwE5L0&e=" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://keys.mailvelope.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x9A830097CA066684[keys.mailvelope.com]</span></a></span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:#212121"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br>
From:<span class="m-8609366362574713037m-7109674684725550967apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a>>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction-bounces@icann.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Greg Shatan<br>
Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 2:13 PM<br>
To: ws2-jurisdiction <<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">ws2-jurisdiction@icann.org</span></a>>><br>
Subject: Re: [Ws2-jurisdiction] OFAC Recommendation -- Further Suggested Revisions<br>
<br>
CORRECTED VERSION ATTACHED. A paragraph suggested by Kavouss, which is in the Google Doc, did not show up in the Word document (nor in the PDF, which is based on the Word doc). Corrected versions are attached. Thank you to Kavouss for catching this. Please
see the last paragraph in the document so that you can review this suggested text.<br>
<br>
Also, some crossed-out text at the very end that was supposed to be deleted (as noted on last week's call) has now been deleted from the attached (and the Google Doc).<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Sep 18, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Greg Shatan <<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a><mailto:<a href="mailto:gregshatanipc@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">gregshatanipc@gmail.com</span></a>>>
wrote:<br>
All,<br>
<br>
I have attached a further revised OFAC Recommendation, reflecting changes suggested by Kavouss Arasteh and Seun Ojedeji. Word and PDF versions are attached, and the Google Doc reflects these suggested changes as well.<br>
<br>
I look forward to our call.<br>
<br>
Best regards,<br>
<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
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