Re: [lac-discuss-en] VOTE NOTICE: 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE LACRALO ALAC / 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE TO THE LACRALO ALAC

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
Mr. Samuels,
To further clarify our position, we want to explain the nature of what is a point of order.
The UNGA Rules of Procedure, in particular, Article 79 of Annex IV (a) of the Rules of the General Assembly, gives a concept of what a point of order:
79. The Special Committee recommends to the General Assembly the adoption of the following text as a description of the concept of a point of order [para. 229]:
*_"(a) A point of order is basically an intervention directed to the presiding officer, requesting him to make use of some power inherent in his office or specifically given him under the rules of procedure_*. It may, for example, relate to the manner in which the debate is conducted, to the maintenance of order, to the observance of the rules of procedure or to the way in which presiding officers exercise the powers conferred upon them by the rules. Under a point of order, a representative may request the presiding officer to apply a certain rule of procedure or he may question the way in which the officer applies the rule. Thus, within the scope of the rules of procedure, representatives are enabled to direct the attention of the presiding officer to violations or misapplications of the rules by other representatives or by the presiding officer himself. A point of order has precedence over any other matter, including procedural motions (rules 73 [114] [Rule 71 [113] of the present rules of procedure] and 79 [120] [Rule 77 [119] of the present rules of procedure]).
"(b) Points of order raised under rule 73 [114]n involve questions necessitating a ruling by the presiding officer, subject to possible appeal. *They are therefore distinct from the procedural motions provided for in rules 76*[117] [Rule 74 [116] of the present rules of procedure] to 79 [120]o which can be decided only by a vote and on which more than one motion may be entertained at the same time, rule 79 [120]o laying down the precedence of such motions. *_They are also distinct from requests for information or clarification, or from remarks relating to material arrangements (seating, interpretation system, temperature of the room), documents, translations, etc., which - while they may have to be dealt with by the presiding officer - do not require rulings from him. However, in established United Nations practice, a representative intending to submit a procedural motion or to seek information or clarification often rises to 'a point of order' as a means of obtaining the floor. The latter usage, which is based on practical grounds, should not be confused with the raising of points of order under rule 73 [114]_*.
If your request is reviewed, it can be observed that the request it is not directed to the President â/requesting him to make use of some power inherent in his office or specifically given him under the rules of procedure/', but you requests â/That the general assembly demonstrate its lack of confidence in the LACRALO leadership and vote on this motion/â.
In simple terms, what you say is a point of order, it's really not. It is therefore not possible to give such treatment. 


Regards

El 10/09/2015 a las 3:39, Carlton Samuels escribiÃ:

Humberto:
With the greatest of patience, you are wrong.   Again.
You are advised to read motion again then consult the Rule of Procedure closely. Rule 18 contains the authority and guidance for action.
The motion was timed for a General Assembly. The question pertaining the vote and distribution of credentials to members made it so. 

The vote IS the question for decision.
All the reasons for the motion are concatenated; an illegal assembly, a failure of process etc. The vote IS the question under discussion.
If you don't understand the reason for not invoking Rule 8, I can explain it to you.
I drafted the original Rules of Procedure and remain the competent authority. 

-Carlton Samuels




==============================
Carlton A Samuels
Mobile: 876-818-1799
/Strategy, Planning, Governance, Assessment & Turnaround/
=============================
On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Humberto Carrasco <hcarrascob@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:hcarrascob@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote: 

    Dear Jacqueline,

    By this email we respond to your request.

    Overall, we estimate that we cannot suspend the election for the
    following reasons:

    1. The voting process began on Thursday, September 3, 2015, and
    runs until Thursday, September 10, 2015 until 23:00 hours.

    2. The motion of Mr. Samuels was presented on Friday, September 4,
    2015.

    In his email, Mr. Samuels raised a Point of Order and offered a
    motion of NO CONFIDENCE in the LACRALO leadership.

    He pointed out some arguments to justify his action and then he
    ended with:

    "Resolved:

    That the general assembly demonstrate its lack of confidence in
    the LACRALO leadership and vote on this motion."

    Thus, this paragraph says nothing about any suspension.


    3. On 5 September, we informed to Mr Samuels that we requested an
    official translation to Spanish of his motion to be sent to the
    LACRALO's Spanish list.

    4. Subsequently, the 7^th of September 2015 Alberto Soto informed
    that he had asked for legal advice from ICANNâs legal staff
    regarding this motion of censure.

    5. The RoP in Articles 8.1 and 8.2 states the following:

    8.1 During a discussion, any delegate may raise a point of order;
    such a point of order shall be immediately decided upon by the
    presiding officer.

    8.2 An appeal may be made against the ruling of the presiding
    officer. Such an appeal shall be put to the vote immediately and
    the presiding officer's ruling shall stand, unless overruled by a
    simple majority of the ALS present and voting.

    These rules are silent regarding any suspension. Neither there has
    been any appeal. In any case, an appeal did not suspend the
    current vote.

    6. There are articles relating to the suspension in Rule 9 that
    provides:

    Rule 9 - Procedural Motions

    9.1    During a discussion, any delegate may move the suspension
    or adjournment of the meeting or the adjournment or closure of the
    debate.

    9.2   Such a motion shall be put to the vote immediately. Subject
    to Rule 8.1, such motions shall have precedence in the following
    order over all other proposals or motions before the meeting:

    (a)  Suspension of the meeting;

    (b)  Adjournment of the meeting;

    (c)  Adjournment of the debate on the question under discussion;

    (d)  Closure of the debate on the question under discussion.

    7. - Finally, with regard to the arguments and accusations of Mr.
    Samuels, they will be answered once the official translation into
    Spanish is sent to the LACRALO's Spanish list.


    Regards.

    Alberto Soto
    Humberto Carrasco


    El 09/09/2015 a las 15:39, Jacqueline Morris escribiÃ:

    Hi Humberto
    I'm confused - there was a motion on the table from Carlton - the
    motion of No Confidence. According to the RoP, this motion needs
    to be debated and voted BEFORE the vote on ALAC rep can continue
    (it takes precedence). This hasn't been done, so how can the vote
    on ALAC rep be ending tomorrow?
    Or was there a vote on the motion and I missed it?

    I am particularly concerned given the number of procedural
    mistakes that seem to have occurred recently. We don't want more
    issues with this vote.

    Jacqueline A. Morris
    Technology should be like oxygen: Ubiquitous, Necessary,
    Invisible and Free. (after Chris Lehmann
    <http://twitter.com/chrislehmann> )

    2015-09-09 9:18 GMT-04:00 <hcarrascob@xxxxxxxxx
    <mailto:hcarrascob@xxxxxxxxx>>:


        [[--Translated text (es -> en)--]]

         Subject: Re: VOTE NOTICE: 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE
        LACRALO ALAC / 2015 VOTE FOR REPRESENTATIVE TO THE LACRALO ALAC
         From: hcarrascob@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:hcarrascob@xxxxxxxxx>

         Dear,




         Do not forget that within Voting ends tomorrow Thursday 10
         September 2015 at 23:00 UTC.


         Cheers




         The 04/09/2015 at 0:00, staff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:staff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
        > [[--Translated text (en -> es)--]]
        >
        >   Asunto: VOTO ANUNCIO: 2015 VOTO PARA LACRALO ALAC
        REPRESENTANTE / 2015 VOTO PARA REPRESENTANTE DE LACRALO ANTE
        EL ALAC
        >   De: staff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:staff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        >
        >   [ES]
        >   Queridos todos,
        >
        >
        >   LACRALOs Presidencia y SecretarÃa gustarÃa anunciar el
        inicio de la votaciÃn
        >   al Representante LACRALO ALAC para el perÃodo de dos aÃos
        a partir de las
        >   Al final de la reuniÃn de DublÃn ICANN en octubre de
        2015. Esta encuesta estarà abierta
        >   desde jueves 03 septiembre 2015 hasta Jueves 10 de
        septiembre 2015 a las 23:00 UTC.
        >
        >
        >   ***
        >   PREGUNTA: ÂA quiÃn apoyas a convertirse en el ALAC
        Representante LACRALO para
        >   el perÃodo de dos aÃos a partir de finales de la reuniÃn
        de la ICANN en DublÃn
        >   10 2015? Por favor, seleccionar un candidato de la lista
        de abajo (que se enumeran
        >   por orden alfabÃtico del nombre de la familia) o abstenerse:
        >   * Harold Arcos
        >   * Juan Manuel Rojas
        >   * Abstenerse
        >   ***
        >   InformaciÃn adicional se puede encontrar en la pÃgina de
        elecciones Wiki:
        > https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw.
        >
        >
        >   ==
        >
        >
        >   [ES]
        >   Hola a todos,
        >
        >
        >   El Presidente y secretario de LACRALOs quisieran anunciar
        el inicio del
        >   por voto pÃrrafo Elegir al Representante de LACRALO ante
        el ALAC Representante
        >   EL PERIODO DE 2 aos Empezando al final de de la reunin de
        Dubln en Octubre
        >   del 2015. La votacin estarabierta desde el Lunes 03 de
        Setiembre 2015 al
        >   Viernes 10 de Setiembre 2015 a las 23:00 UTC.
        >
        >
        >   ***
        >   PREGUNTA: A quien Elige Usted Para Ser Representante del
        LACRALO ante el
        >   ALAC POR EL PERIODO DE 2 aos Comenzando en la reuniÃn de
        la ICANN en Octubre
        >   del 2015? Por favor ELIJA UN Candidato de la Lista Abajo
        (en Orden
        >   alfabtico) o abstngase:
        >   * Harold Arcos
        >   * Juan Manuel Rojas
        >   * Abstencin
        >   ***
        >   Informacin Adicional Se Puede Encontrar En La pgina WIKI:
        > https://community.icann.org/x/moAQAw.
        >
        >
        >   Saludos,
        >
        >
        >   Heidi Ullrich, Silvia Vivanco, Ariel Liang, Gisella
        Gruber, Nathalie
        >   Peregrine y Terri Agnew
        >   El personal de ICANN polÃtica en apoyo de ALAC
        >   E-mail: staff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        <mailto:staff@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
        >   Facebook: www.facebook.com/icann
        <http://www.facebook.com/icann> &lt;
        https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>
        >   AtLarge &lt; https://www.facebook.com/icannatlarge>
        >   Twitter: @ &lt; https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge>
        >   &lt; https://twitter.com/ICANNAtLarge>
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >



        [[--Original text (es)
        http://mm.icann.org/transbot_archive/71b69bd4a9.html
        --]]



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