[CCWG-ACCT] [Acct-Legal] community powers comparison: designator & membership model - what powers can we create and how to enforce them?

Thu Apr 16 04:31:35 UTC 2015

Hi there - if it's four or so hours that is still OK. But aside from that,
too late, and we won't ask people to read it as a late paper.

I'd like to emphasise that that's OK - the input is primarily for a debate
that the CCWG as a whole is having, and so this work will be a very useful
tool for that.

thanks,
Jordan

On 16 April 2015 at 16:27, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <leonfelipe at sanchez.mx>
wrote:

> Thank you Rosemary,
>
> Here's a link to a tool that might prove to be useful while converting
> into UTC
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converted.html?iso=20150416T07&p1=0&p2=155
>
> And yes, that is in less than three hours.
>
> Jordan, can you confirme Counsel won't be required in the call?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> León
>
> El 15/04/2015, a las 23:20, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal
> SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> escribió:
>
> León and Jordan:
>
> I'm new to converting from UTC, but I believe the deadline (0700 UTC) is
> in less than three hours.  If that's correct, then no, legal counsel cannot
> have our comments to Robin's chart ready by then.
>
> Rosemary
>
> *From:* ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org
> <ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *List for the
> work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 15, 2015 9:04 PM
> *To:* Jordan Carter
> *Cc:* ACCT-Staff; ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org; Accountability Cross
> Community
> *Subject:* Re: [Acct-Legal] [CCWG-ACCT] community powers comparison:
> designator & membership model - what powers can we create and how to
> enforce them?
>
> Thanks for the quick return Jordan.
>
> Counsel, is Jordan's message clear?
>
> Your attendance would be needed on WP1 call *only* if the document is
> ready under the stated times.
>
> Would this timeline be able to be met?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> León
>
>
> El 15/04/2015, a las 22:10, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
> escribió:
>
> Hi folks
>
> If the lawyers are on track to finish adding their material / views to the
> table that Robin proposed and are ready to circulate that to me and
> everyone else by 0700 UTC on Thursday, then *yes*, I would like to invite
> them to be the first item on the call, from 1900 to 1920 on the call on
> Thursday (UTC).
>
> Otherwise, no counsel are required.
>
> We won't deal with any material that can't reach the 12h deadline, unless
> it's like 11h or 10h.
>
> So - please advise ASAP the timeline.
>
> IN terms of what we have to do on that call, introducing this material
> will be helpful, but we don't need to make decisions on it. That's why it
> is a 20 mins slot at the start of the call - we do have to finish the rest.
>
>
> thanks,
> Jordan
>
>
> On 16 April 2015 at 13:08, León Felipe Sánchez Ambía <
> leonfelipe at sanchez.mx> wrote:
> Dear Jordan,
>
> Could you please confirm whether you will be needing the lawyers to attend
> your call on Friday?
>
> Staff, if Jordan does confirm the need to invite the lawyers, could you
> please make sure they get the invitations with the call details?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> León
>
>
> El 15/04/2015, a las 19:56, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal
> SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> escribió:
>
> Dear Leon and Jordan,
>
> Could you please let us know if outside counsel is being asked to join the
> WP1 call on Friday referenced below, and if so, could you let us know the
> time of the call and arrange for an invitation to be sent to us?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *TYLER* *HILTON*
> Associate
>
> *Sidley Austin LLP*
> +1.213.896.6130
>
> thilton at sidley.com
>
>
> *From:* ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org [
> mailto:ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org
> <ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org>] *On Behalf Of *List for the
> work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 15, 2015 4:01 AM
> *To:* ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org; Jordan Carter
> *Cc:* ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org; Accountability Cross Community
> *Subject:* Re: [Acct-Legal] [CCWG-ACCT] community powers comparison:
> designator & membership model - what powers can we create and how to
> enforce them?
>
> Dear Leon and Jordan,  We should be able to have this ready within the
> next day or so and definitely prior to Friday's call.  Kind regards, Holly.
>
>
>
> Sent with Good (www.good.com)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org on behalf of List for the
> work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
> *Sent:* Wednesday, April 15, 2015 12:32:18 AM
> *To:* Jordan Carter
> *Cc:* ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org; Accountability Cross Community
> *Subject:* Re: [Acct-Legal] [CCWG-ACCT] community powers comparison:
> designator & membership model - what powers can we create and how to
> enforce them?
> Dear Holly and Rosemary,
>
> Would Jordan's request be possible?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> León
>
>
> El 15/04/2015, a las 0:26, Jordan Carter <jordan at internetnz.net.nz>
> escribió:
>
>
> I know this is bold, but is there any chance a reviewed copy might be
> available for discussion in WP1 on Friday?
> Many thanks
> Jordan
>
> On 15 April 2015 at 17:00, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal
> SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> wrote:
> Dear Holly and Rosemary,
>
>
> Please do review Robin's table. I apologize for the delay on assignment
> and don't expect you to have elaborated for our call tomorrow but rather
> give an initial review so we can further discuss in our call tomorrow.
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> León
>
>
> El 14/04/2015, a las 16:42, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability Legal
> SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> escribió:
>
> Happy to review with direction from Legal Subteam.  Please provide
> direction ASAP. Holly
>
>
>
> Sent with Good (www.good.com
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.good.com_&d=AwMF-g&c=Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9QnYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=L61uyQoMoLQNKeNS8IeUq8PGBHFxIbf8OsQyldAA_x8&s=LHjEeG-lgFP24N041IFPvPpBrLyEgzqw7SUm06JPFj4&e=>
> )
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* ccwg-accountability5-bounces at icann.org on behalf of List for the
> work of CCWG-Accountability Legal SubTeam
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 14, 2015 03:45:49 PM
> *To:* ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org
> *Cc:* Accountability Cross Community
> *Subject:* Re: [Acct-Legal] [CCWG-ACCT] community powers comparison:
> designator & membership model - what powers can we create and how to
> enforce them?
> Fantastic work Robin and much appreciated!
>
> I echo Greg's comments concerning  the role of litigation in both models.
> I do like the format and I think it would be a great idea to have it
> reviewed and improved upon, if necessary, by counsel, for distribution to
> the general list.
>
> Best,
>
> Ed
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 8:19 PM, List for the work of CCWG-Accountability
> Legal SubTeam <ccwg-accountability5 at icann.org> wrote:
> Robin,
>
> Thank you for this.  A great deal of effort clearly went into this and
> this should develop into a very useful tool.  However, I think we will need
> to have this reviewed by legal counsel before we rely on it.  Having
> reviewed this briefly, I am uncertain that at this stage this document
> accurately captures the legal advice, particularly with regard to how the
> rights can be enforced.
>
> Specifically, this seems to give the impression that, if the membership
> model were chosen, the members would be limited to running off to court in
> most cases should rights need to be enforced.  I'm fairly confident that is
> not the case.  I believe that the remedies listed for the designator model,
> particularly changes to the bylaws and the IRP, are equally available in
> the member model.  With regard to litigation, I think the distinction is
> that the designators have no ability to litigate on behalf of the
> corporation, while this is one possibility (but far from the only one)
> available to members.  In other words, such litigation is an extra power,
> not the only power, available to members.
>
> The Legal Sub Team (copied here) should discuss how to proceed.
>
> Thank you again for taking the laboring oar in pulling this together!
>
> Best regards,
>
> Greg
>
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Robin Gross <robin at ipjustice.org> wrote:
>
> Hello Team,
>
> What we need to do is take a hard look at both the membership model and
> the designator model and understand what rights can be created and how will
> they be enforced.  Once we understand what we *can* do, we need to look at
> the pros/cons of the different models and evaluate accordingly.
>
> But first, we need to understand what *can* be done so we can discuss *if*
> we ought to do it and what is the best means.
>
> So I've taken a first pass of each of the 6 community empowerment goals
> and created a comparison table to lay-out what rights can be created and
> how they can be enforced.  I've combed through all the 200+ pages of legal
> memos, today's CCWG call, and calls of the legal sub-team to compile this
> info into one table so the models can begin to be evaluated side-by-side.
>
> The doc is attached and also here is a link to the table comparing the 2
> models:
>
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kkkRBpMUkTpD5_RP_Ogo1PTGzGt2kC6f1xooHfJXRBc/edit?usp=sharing
> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__docs.google.com_spreadsheets_d_1kkkRBpMUkTpD5-5FRP-5FOgo1PTGzGt2kC6f1xooHfJXRBc_edit-3Fusp-3Dsharing&d=AwMFaQ&c=Od00qP2XTg0tXf_H69-T2w&r=1-1w8mU_eFprE2Nn9QnYf01XIV88MOwkXwHYEbF2Y_8&m=nyDQdlri5xYHMimBihFhuPRDmv90jS4gFWrucTjoxrM&s=nn6UHsMF-YpzD09pBcaHOa5b41fXAi_G4BJGOV2NU4A&e=>
>
> I am hopeful it can begin to help us to wrap our minds around what our
> goals are and how they could be accomplished by the two models at play.
>
> Thanks,
> Robin
>
>
>
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> --
>
> Jordan Carter
>
> Chief Executive
> *InternetNZ*
>
> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
> jordan at internetnz.net.nz
> Skype: jordancarter
>
> *A better world through a better Internet *
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>
> --
>
> Jordan Carter
>
> Chief Executive
> *InternetNZ*
>
> 04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
> jordan at internetnz.net.nz
> Skype: jordancarter
>
> *A better world through a better Internet *
>
>
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-- 
Jordan Carter

Chief Executive
*InternetNZ*

04 495 2118 (office) | +64 21 442 649 (mob)
jordan at internetnz.net.nz
Skype: jordancarter

*A better world through a better Internet *
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