[CCWG-ACCT] way forward and minority statements

Greg Shatan gregshatanipc at gmail.com
Thu Jul 30 15:18:44 UTC 2015


Stephanie,

Are you referring to the criminal element who knows how to use WHOIS to
hide themselves?  That is certainly a huge problem and not limited to
violations of criminal law -- it is also a huge problem with regard to
lawbreakers whose actions are not criminal in nature.

Greg

On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:

> Totally agree Nigel, but providing access to law enforcement is not the
> same as publishing to the world, and the criminal element who know how to
> use WHOIS.  At the moment, options for nuanced disclosure are limited.
> SP
>
>
> On 2015-07-30 11:00, Nigel Roberts wrote:
>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> The whole debate about the right to private and family life is more
>> nuanced.
>>
>> Without turning this list into a discussion on how respect for human
>> rights is guaranteed on this contintent, it's worth pointing out that
>> respecting the right of privacy does NOT mean closing off domain
>> registration data to law enforcment. Quite the opposite.
>>
>> The privacy right is a qualified right -- so it CAN be interfered with
>>
>> - lawfully, when necessary in a democratic society; so long as it is
>> - proportionate.
>>
>> And I don't think that conflicts with anybody's 'marching orders'.
>>
>>
>> On 30/07/15 15:53, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>
>>> I hate to complicate this discussion, but I feel duty bound to point out
>>> that the first human right many people think of these days with respect
>>> to the domain name registration system is privacy.  Freedom of
>>> expression and the openness of the Internet rolls more easily off the
>>> tongue....but if anyone says what about privacy, the WHOIS would have to
>>> be re-examined.  This of course conflicts with the marching orders that
>>> the NTIA has had for ICANN since its inception.
>>> Stephanie Perrin
>>>
>>> On 2015-07-30 5:59, Erika Mann wrote:
>>>
>>>> In addition to Avri's points, such a provision could help as well to
>>>> ensure that future business models that relate to more sensitive
>>>> strings (.gay for example) will continue to be treated as any other
>>>> string.
>>>>
>>>> Erika
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>     Hi,
>>>>
>>>>     Off the top of my head, I think a first thing we would have to do
>>>>     would
>>>>     be to start understanding the impact, if any, of ICANN operations
>>>> and
>>>>     policies on human rights.  Some of this work is already starting
>>>>     in the
>>>>     human rights working party (HRWP), though that is a rather informal
>>>>     beginning.  I would also think that some part of the staff would
>>>>     need to
>>>>     start taking these issues into consideration.  I do not think that
>>>> it
>>>>     would cause any serious changes in the near future but would make us
>>>>     more aware as time went on, and would give us a basis for discussion
>>>>     both in the HRWP and in the ACSO and Board.
>>>>
>>>>     In terms of the specific things it might limt us from, and this
>>>> would
>>>>     require some analysis on specifc events, might be creating any
>>>>     kinds of
>>>>     policies or operations that forced  limitation of content, beyond
>>>> the
>>>>     limitations required by law for incitement, on domain named sites.
>>>> It
>>>>     would in fact strengthen our postion in that respect.
>>>>
>>>>     Most important though, it would cover a hole left by the loss of the
>>>>     NTIA backstop, on any issue concerning freedom of expression, free
>>>>     flow
>>>>     of information or openness of the Internet.
>>>>
>>>>     thanks
>>>>     avri
>>>>
>>>>     On 30-Jul-15 11:07, Drazek, Keith wrote:
>>>>     > Hi Chris,
>>>>     >
>>>>     > I'll have to defer to others with more expertise on this one.
>>>>     It's a
>>>>     > good question that should be addressed.
>>>>     >
>>>>     > Best,
>>>>     > Keith
>>>>     >
>>>>     > On Jul 30, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Chris Disspain <ceo at auda.org.au
>>>>     <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>
>>>>     > <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>>> wrote:
>>>>     >
>>>>     >> Keith,
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> This looks interesting. Could we think of an example of something
>>>>     >> concrete ICANN would have to do if it made this commitment? Or
>>>>     >> something it would not be able to do?
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> Cheers,
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >> Chris
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>
>>>>     >>> On 30 Jul 2015, at 18:16 , Drazek, Keith <kdrazek at verisign.com
>>>>     <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>
>>>>     >>> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> Hi Avri,
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> In order to tie your suggestion directly to the language in
>>>>     >>> Secretary Strickling's April 2014 written congressional
>>>> testimony
>>>>     >>> (included in a prior email) and to reduce concerns about scope
>>>>     >>> creep, would language along these lines be acceptable to you?
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>> "Within its mission and in its operations, ICANN will be
>>>>     committed
>>>>     >>>> to respect the fundamental human rights of the exercise of free
>>>>     >>>> expression and the free flow of information."
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> Speaking personally, I could probably support this formulation.
>>>> To
>>>>     >>> be clear, I have not discussed this with the RySG, but it's
>>>>     >>> consistent with the requirements outlined by NTIA so I think
>>>> it's
>>>>     >>> certainly worth considering.
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> I'm not advocating including this in the Bylaws, but I'm not
>>>>     >>> objecting to it either. However, if we don't reach consensus for
>>>>     >>> adding to the Bylaws, I definitely think this is worth further
>>>>     >>> consideration in WS2 and would support an explicit reference
>>>> using
>>>>     >>> this or similar language and timetable for doing so.
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>> Regards,
>>>>     >>> Keith
>>>>     >>>
>>>>     >>>> On Jul 30, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>>>>     <mailto:avri at acm.org>
>>>>     >>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>> wrote:
>>>>     >>>>
>>>>     >>>> Within its mission, ICANN will be committed to respect
>>>>     fundamental
>>>>     >>>>  human rights in its operationsespecially with regard to the
>>>>     exercise
>>>>     >>>>  of free expression or the free flow of information.
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