[CCWG-ACCT] way forward and minority statements
Greg Shatan
gregshatanipc at gmail.com
Thu Jul 30 15:18:44 UTC 2015
Stephanie,
Are you referring to the criminal element who knows how to use WHOIS to
hide themselves? That is certainly a huge problem and not limited to
violations of criminal law -- it is also a huge problem with regard to
lawbreakers whose actions are not criminal in nature.
Greg
On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:05 AM, Stephanie Perrin <
stephanie.perrin at mail.utoronto.ca> wrote:
> Totally agree Nigel, but providing access to law enforcement is not the
> same as publishing to the world, and the criminal element who know how to
> use WHOIS. At the moment, options for nuanced disclosure are limited.
> SP
>
>
> On 2015-07-30 11:00, Nigel Roberts wrote:
>
>> Stephanie
>>
>> The whole debate about the right to private and family life is more
>> nuanced.
>>
>> Without turning this list into a discussion on how respect for human
>> rights is guaranteed on this contintent, it's worth pointing out that
>> respecting the right of privacy does NOT mean closing off domain
>> registration data to law enforcment. Quite the opposite.
>>
>> The privacy right is a qualified right -- so it CAN be interfered with
>>
>> - lawfully, when necessary in a democratic society; so long as it is
>> - proportionate.
>>
>> And I don't think that conflicts with anybody's 'marching orders'.
>>
>>
>> On 30/07/15 15:53, Stephanie Perrin wrote:
>>
>>> I hate to complicate this discussion, but I feel duty bound to point out
>>> that the first human right many people think of these days with respect
>>> to the domain name registration system is privacy. Freedom of
>>> expression and the openness of the Internet rolls more easily off the
>>> tongue....but if anyone says what about privacy, the WHOIS would have to
>>> be re-examined. This of course conflicts with the marching orders that
>>> the NTIA has had for ICANN since its inception.
>>> Stephanie Perrin
>>>
>>> On 2015-07-30 5:59, Erika Mann wrote:
>>>
>>>> In addition to Avri's points, such a provision could help as well to
>>>> ensure that future business models that relate to more sensitive
>>>> strings (.gay for example) will continue to be treated as any other
>>>> string.
>>>>
>>>> Erika
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:42 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> Off the top of my head, I think a first thing we would have to do
>>>> would
>>>> be to start understanding the impact, if any, of ICANN operations
>>>> and
>>>> policies on human rights. Some of this work is already starting
>>>> in the
>>>> human rights working party (HRWP), though that is a rather informal
>>>> beginning. I would also think that some part of the staff would
>>>> need to
>>>> start taking these issues into consideration. I do not think that
>>>> it
>>>> would cause any serious changes in the near future but would make us
>>>> more aware as time went on, and would give us a basis for discussion
>>>> both in the HRWP and in the ACSO and Board.
>>>>
>>>> In terms of the specific things it might limt us from, and this
>>>> would
>>>> require some analysis on specifc events, might be creating any
>>>> kinds of
>>>> policies or operations that forced limitation of content, beyond
>>>> the
>>>> limitations required by law for incitement, on domain named sites.
>>>> It
>>>> would in fact strengthen our postion in that respect.
>>>>
>>>> Most important though, it would cover a hole left by the loss of the
>>>> NTIA backstop, on any issue concerning freedom of expression, free
>>>> flow
>>>> of information or openness of the Internet.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> avri
>>>>
>>>> On 30-Jul-15 11:07, Drazek, Keith wrote:
>>>> > Hi Chris,
>>>> >
>>>> > I'll have to defer to others with more expertise on this one.
>>>> It's a
>>>> > good question that should be addressed.
>>>> >
>>>> > Best,
>>>> > Keith
>>>> >
>>>> > On Jul 30, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Chris Disspain <ceo at auda.org.au
>>>> <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>
>>>> > <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au <mailto:ceo at auda.org.au>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> Keith,
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This looks interesting. Could we think of an example of something
>>>> >> concrete ICANN would have to do if it made this commitment? Or
>>>> >> something it would not be able to do?
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Cheers,
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Chris
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> On 30 Jul 2015, at 18:16 , Drazek, Keith <kdrazek at verisign.com
>>>> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>
>>>> >>> <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com <mailto:kdrazek at verisign.com>>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Hi Avri,
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> In order to tie your suggestion directly to the language in
>>>> >>> Secretary Strickling's April 2014 written congressional
>>>> testimony
>>>> >>> (included in a prior email) and to reduce concerns about scope
>>>> >>> creep, would language along these lines be acceptable to you?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> "Within its mission and in its operations, ICANN will be
>>>> committed
>>>> >>>> to respect the fundamental human rights of the exercise of free
>>>> >>>> expression and the free flow of information."
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Speaking personally, I could probably support this formulation.
>>>> To
>>>> >>> be clear, I have not discussed this with the RySG, but it's
>>>> >>> consistent with the requirements outlined by NTIA so I think
>>>> it's
>>>> >>> certainly worth considering.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> I'm not advocating including this in the Bylaws, but I'm not
>>>> >>> objecting to it either. However, if we don't reach consensus for
>>>> >>> adding to the Bylaws, I definitely think this is worth further
>>>> >>> consideration in WS2 and would support an explicit reference
>>>> using
>>>> >>> this or similar language and timetable for doing so.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Regards,
>>>> >>> Keith
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> On Jul 30, 2015, at 8:11 AM, Avri Doria <avri at acm.org
>>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org>
>>>> >>>> <mailto:avri at acm.org <mailto:avri at acm.org>>> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Within its mission, ICANN will be committed to respect
>>>> fundamental
>>>> >>>> human rights in its operationsespecially with regard to the
>>>> exercise
>>>> >>>> of free expression or the free flow of information.
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