[CCWG-ACCT] Clarifying the Observer Role in the Subgroups

Sun Aug 14 17:08:31 UTC 2016

Carlos,
I guess there were some very long answers, without addressing the real
issue. To change from observer to participant, other than have the time to
interact, you must fill a SOI. If you want to be a participant you must
sent an email to MSSI secretariat, so they can open a wiki page for you,
and give you the instructions to create/fill the SOI.

Saludos

Ricardo Holmquist

On Sunday, 14 August 2016, Marilyn Cade <marilynscade at hotmail.com> wrote:

> I speak only for myself.
>
> I am a long standing participant at ICANN.
>
> In fact, I have to take the recognition that some of the modalities that
> we work under today came from ideas that I may have sifted out from lots of
> debates among those that were there, engaging...  but were fine tuned with
> lots of other voices and ideas. :-)
>
> Recently, the ICANN community has improved on how we [the ICANN community]
> develop the governance for ourselves at ICANN. I saw an interesting
> exchange, so I will offer my small perspective.
>
> Yes, ICANN is the surrogate for harsher and more governmental regulation.
> We all agreed to that model, back in 1998, and we have struggled to make it
> 'so' over these years.
>
> As I have said before: ISPs and others have to get an accreditation or a
> license in a country to do business. ICANN provides an umbrella with the
> gTLDs registries and registrars that puts them into a unique self
> governance category. Accepting that means that ICANN enforces the
> contracts, and the parties to the contract step up their compliance.
>
> BUT, when I look at the larger IG eco system, I see in my view, that ICANN
> has to sit within that. Understanding its narrow, but critical role, and
> functions, and understanding that it needs to show up.  this is not about
> expansion. It is about clearly saying this is what we do. This is what we
> do not do. BUT, we are part of IG.
>
> So, back to roles.
>
> I am an observer. If I feel so compelled to post then, I can send a
> request to a co chair, to ask to have an individual post shared. I leave it
> with them.
>
> I do want to say something about the concern that being paid is a bad
> thing. It is not.
> People who are paid just need to declare their funding, and recuse
> themselves in discussions that are conflicts of interest.
>
> We should respect that some who participate have agendas. Let's just make
> sure we all declare our agendas in our SOIs for the WG.
>
> Long ago, everytime you spoke at the public forum, you were expected to
> say: My name is. I work for /or I am funded by, or I am affiliated with
> XXXXXX. Then you got to speak. Somehow we lost that. :-)
> Perhaps in the wg, we should practice what we preach:
>
> Introduce yourself. Don't assume that everyone knows what /who you are
> representing.
>
> I value the opportunity to be an observer.
>
> I guess I need to say one more thing. Some have heard me. We are not
> volunteers. We are developing standards and directly related policies. The
> engineers that work at the IETF are not called volunteers. Those who work
> at the ITU Study groups are not called volunteers.
>
> They are called members, or participants, or observers.
>  Being a non paid participant /unaffiliated with a contracted party is an
> additional burden but actually is a critical role, as without it, there
> would be a possibility of a colusion of only contracted  parties and ICANN,
> which will put the Contracted parties at great risk, and also put ICANN at
> great risk. So, ensuring that there is user engagement is a critical
> success factor for this model.
>
> I
>
> > Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2016 10:31:22 -0500
> > From: cveraq at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','cveraq at gmail.com');>
> > To: avri at apc.org <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','avri at apc.org');>;
> accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community at icann.org');>
> > Subject: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Clarifying the Observer Role in the Subgroups
> >
> > Volunteers has different ‎faces:
> >
> > 1. Some are Professionals involved in the filed of work of each group or
> sub group. Their real interest is to improve their profesional skills and
> use the experience and material for their job or academic role. They are
> active Participants because they work with a volunteer hat. Sometimes this
> can be dangerous because they have enterprises or organizations they work
> for and of course because they get paid, the volunteer and Active working
> is a real job instead..
> >
> > 2. Citizens or users working in the real interest of civil Society.
>  ‎Not always actively participating because not always have the expertise
> or time to do so and have real Jobs to attend not related with this groups
> so they really volunteer dedicating time and effort to actively
> participate, even ocasionally.
> >
> > In my particular situation I'm in the second group and dedicate some of
> my free time here, i'm an observer most of time until some issue like this
> one come to me and motivate to participate.
> >
> > I'm in favor of No penalties for a "lack of participation" nor a prize
> for "volunteer hat"
> >
> > Carlos Vera
> > Isoc Ecuador
> >
> > Enviado desde mi smartphone BlackBerry 10.
> >   Mensaje original
> > De: avri doria
> > Enviado: domingo, 14 de agosto de 2016 10:03
> > Para: accountability-cross-community at icann.org
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','accountability-cross-community at icann.org');>
> > Asunto: Re: [CCWG-ACCT] Clarifying the Observer Role in the Subgroups
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Perhaps there is a level of participation between passive Observation
> > and commitment to all meetings and hard work.
> >
> > I think this is achieved by attending calls we are interested in,
> > marking ourselves as (observer)s and listening. I think the chat allows
> > a form of comment that does not grab the microphone but which does allow
> > an occasional comment. Personally I watch the schedule and figure I can
> > AC into any meeting that interests me, but not activate my microphone
> > when calling myslef an Observer.
> >
> > I think we might be sending the wrong message if we say there is a
> > binary choice: you have to be full-in like the more dedicated
> > participants, or sit quietly until the work is done.
> >
> > However, if the only penalty for weak participation is a bad attendance
> > report, then please switch me to participant in all groups.
> >
> > thanks
> > avri
> >
> > On 14-Aug-16 10:34, Bernard Turcotte wrote:
> > > Greg et al.,
> > >
> > > Answers inserted in your questions below but it is important to note
> > > the the role of Observers was meant to be just that:
> > >
> > > On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:50 PM, Greg Shatan <gregshatanipc at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com');>
> > > <mailto:gregshatanipc at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','gregshatanipc at gmail.com');>>> wrote:
> > >
> > > Co-Chairs and Staff,
> > >
> > > We need some clarification of the Observer role in the Subgroups.
> > >
> > > Conceptually, are the Observers essentially "spectators" or do
> > > they have the ability to participate in some fashion?
> > >
> > > Specifically:
> > >
> > > 1. Will Observers get call invitations?
> > >
> > >
> > > No - in part this is because there is no way to distinguish between
> > > Observers and Participants on teleconferences or in Adobe - as such
> > > if Observers were to participate in these there would be no point in
> > > having the differentiation between Observers and Active Participants.
> > > It is however important to note that there is no restrictions on who
> > > can be an Active Participant or an Observer and that people can join
> > > either or switch between them at any time. I will copy below the
> > > published definitions of these here to remind people of the difference
> > > between these two:
> > >
> > > * As an active participant who wishes to engage in the day-to-day
> > > discussions of the particular topic. Each active participant is
> > > expected to spend at least 3-5 hours per week on sub-group work
> > > and will have posting rights to the mailing list.
> > > * As an observer who wishes to follow the topic discussion but not
> > > actively participate at the sub-group level. Observers are not
> > > expected to spend time on sub-group work and will not have posting
> > > rights to the mailing list.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 2. Can Observers join Adobe Connect and/or phone bridge for the call?
> > >
> > >
> > > That is up to the rapporteurs for that group as staff will not police
> > > this - but again since calls are being recorded, transcribed and notes
> > > taken it was felt observers would not be deprived of any information.
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > 3. If yes, can Observers speak and/or write in the chat, or are
> > > they required to be silent/non-participating?
> > >
> > >
> > > As noted above there is no automated way of , and staff will not
> > > police, enforcing any limitation on Observers in Adobe, as such there
> > > is nothing which would prevent them from fully participating.
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > 4. Do Observers receive the mailing list posts along with
> > > everyone else?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > > 
> > >
> > >
> > > 5. Will Observers have posting rights to the email list?
> > >
> > >
> > > No.
> > >
> > >
> > > Hope this helps.
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > B.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Clarification of these specific issues as soon as possible will be
> > > most helpful to the functioning of the Subgroups.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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